If an equivalent real scenario was to be provided, would that change your mind ?
Thereâs replays for every round going back months, go ahead and point to those where a scenario favourable to your opinion plays out. What specifically do you want me to change my mind on?
Did this (or something similar) actually happen, or are you just assuming this would merit a bwoink? That seems like a very reasonable course of action to me.
Happened on a server i will not name. Wizden have same strict security gameplay rules tho(majority of ss14 have this security rules. Due to servers picking them up from main pretty much)
By current rules you are not allowed to work with antags period. Does not matter how bad thing are or what logical. Having agency as sec player is not allowed. And that my problem with current sec as it is now. Its just pushing you into powergamer mindset, because its only thing you allowed to have.
Playing SS14 Sec is like playing LeagueOfLegends. Turns you into the worst type of player, unless you stop playing sec.
Which actually shown me why sec fails against nukies and other antags so much. Because everyone who interested in RolePlay(which is main aspect of the game), burns out because they are not allowed to do ANYTHING. And it so happen that RP players are also team players.
Which only leave solo powergamers to be in sec. And those have team playing capabilities of outcast crab.
1st i was thinking its a me issue and playing HRP ss13 warped me, because mb it was only our server that allowed sec such freedom. But then i joined 3 most chaotic ss13 LRP servers. And its night and day compared to ss14. Then i decided to test an MRP, applied to whitelist, got approved instantly due to HRP access and its same there
In entirety of ss13 LRP, MRP and even HRP(and i mean HRP). Sec have more freedom and agency then on allmost any ss14 LRP server.
LIke how it come to this? LowRolePlay is way more restrtictive and have less player agency to the point of âlet all crew die in teslaâ then ss13 HeavyRolePlay. Where you literally need to file 3-12 pages of paper work for any issue and file report for every shot you shoot. Like HOW?
P.S. I am sorry if i come out as aggressive. I just leggit want ss14 to succeed as new and more modern Roleplay experience. I wanted to understand why sec had so many issues compared to ss13 and decided to start maining sec for weeks across different servers. And i felt like i am playing âofficer beepskyâ that can talk rather then a character that is a security officer.
Perhaps youâre just feeling burnout from space station.
Youâre here trying to combine league of legends, ss13/14 and paperwork HRP into an argument that ultimately stems from you getting admin actioned on a server not even related to wizden.
Iâve also noticed a side effect from the powergaming sec gets forced into. The people who stay in sec and main it tend to behave like caricatures of bad corrupt police. Openly abusing people, then joking among themselves how nobody can do anything about it since theyâll just find themselves innocent. Max penalties, openly ignoring the lawyer.. Itâs especially common on Vulture lately.
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ignoring the lawyer is just sec 101 tbh. Lawyer needs a rework.
Asshole RP is not necessarily bad, just because you are all in the same side does not mean everyone has to like each other. It is a game after all, you are not actually being belittled.
But if it gets excessive to the point you are feeling bullied, you can LOOC to them to tone it down, and ahelp if that does not work.
As for max sentencing, that is on the seccies. And at worst it may be 5 more minutes. Just donât get caught 
I can play sec in ss13 just fine. What i am trying to address is a core issue of current ss14 sec. Which also affects rest of ss14, due to sec being a vital part of the game.
And how lack pf player agency in Sec leads to them turning into powergamming mess that have zero teamplay. Current rules as they are dont allow allmost any RP interactions or own(even tho risky) decisions with suspects. What so ever
In ss13 Sec is allowed to use common sense. Their job is a protection of station crew|station and upholding space law within reason. Sometimes even forming alliance with antag X against nukies, because alternative is total crew annihilation
While in ss14 sec is not allowed to use common sense. By the rules their job is to uphold space law, crew and station can burn. Shoot\powergame on sight is the only thing that is allowed.
And yes wizden have same rules. People were given warning for allying with ninja during nukies like 3+ months back. Where 2 sec offs is all what left and all nukies were alive, they were actually started doing something. Then OOC one of sec off say to ninja, âAdmins said we cannot be friend :(â; âAhhhhh⌠Well goodluckâ. Ninja goes away, secc offs die, station explodes.(i ghost follow them myself)
Like i really was trying to dig âWhy sec player in ss14 so bad compared to ss13â. And its not their fault but a design flaw. They have almost no player agency, which railroads them into becoming powergaming solo players. Who dont care about RP, because they are not allowed to play a character. They only allowed to play DM NPC and that it.
And if you not allowed to RP in a game that literally glued together and holds on âRole Playâ. That is bad. It`s goes against core design of game it tries to succeed(Space Station 13). Which is âeveryone can RP and encouraged to do so. Rules can go within reason as long as your role play is good and everyone involved having a good role play momentâ.
What we have in ss14 âEveryone can follow rules and only rules. You can rp on a side unless you are sec and command, then screw you. Do your job NPCâ
I dont say to be like ss13 in all aspects.
What i am saying that people should be allowed to RP and have player agency. Including Sec and Command.
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You cannot be friends with the antag, does not mean you cannot let them go while you pursue the bigger threat.
Or that you cannot offer a deal in the moment like âwe will not shoot you if you attack the nukiesâ.
Jesus Christ I fixed this on lizard itâs not hard, we have bootcamp and full training, itâs not a hard problem to fix you just have to be hos for weeks on end
The harassment is also a big one, as sec you will be constantly harassed and belittle and beaten down. So thereâs not much you can do
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sadly i think this one is a vivious cycle.
Sec gets harrassed by a salty tider.
Sec treats all crew more harshly as a result.
I think sec just needs more people that understand this is a game or that is just better with conflicts in general.
Sec in general has a tendency that leans towards behaving as an occupier rather then defensive guards.
Some players seem to even think that shitsec is the objectively correct way too, and that youâre wrong if you arenât. They really shouldnât be playing sec if theyâre just looking to have power or control over people. âBut itâs a game.â Someone will probably say. Well being a psychopath tends to utterly sink anyone elseâs round too.
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I want to propose some solutions to the problems presented in this thread.
I will start from my first point: Security and the Station
The problems in this part were: âantagonists and security do not interact meaningfully with the rest of the station.â and âSecurity has no objectives that makes them a part of the station.â I would also like to add a new one: âCrew does not have a good way to communicate with security.â
1. âantagonists and security do not interact meaningfully with the rest of the station.â
I think the most obvious solution to this problem is changing antag objectives, though fixing the communication problem can help to an extent too.
For example, if you are syndicate agent in science department you could have an objective to âmake 3 anomalies critâ. This way you are both sabotaging the department and the station on purpose. There could be an uplink item that makes anomalies immediately crit. Or maybe you could try to do it more stealthly without using any external tools.
This way what the syndicate agent does both affect a department and the station. And the most likely people to notice this sabotage is the science department, this way science needs to work together with security to catch the perpetrator and demote them.
Another example, if you are syndicate agent in engineering department you could have an objective to âdeconstruct 5 substationsâ. Same idea with the scientist one: Sabotaging both the department and station. Deconstructing the substations makes more work for engineering to fix and leads them to think there is someone in the department intentionally sabotaging the power net, since only engineers have access to substation rooms, and try to find who could be the perpetrator.
Same logic to the other departments as well.
The nanochat or a crime reporting app would probably help greatly in solving these cases with security.
2. âSecurity has no objectives that makes them a part of the station.â
I think the old hostile mob spawn was the most obvious example that made security a part of the station. Though, it probably got old and removed by this point. The changing of antag objectives above will probably solve this part as well.
3. âCrew does not have a good way to communicate with security.â
This is a tough one because I think it needs new mechanics to be added to the game. Adding nanochat would be one but I think a more efficient way to communicate with security is possible: A crime reporting app that is baked into the PDA, it can be used to file a report.
Owner of the PDA
this canât be removed or changed
Name of the witness
either a drop down menu of the crew manifest or a space to write.
Name of the perpetrator
either a drop down menu of the crew manifest or a space to write.
Reported crime
drop down menu of all the crimes in space law, only one can be chosen.
Additional details
space to write anymore helpful information.
Time of reporting
shows the time report was created, could be whether when the app was opened, report completed or a slider.
Once completed and sent it makes a notification in the security channel: âNew crime report from [name of the witness].â Every security PDA has an additional app to read the crime reports.
It is intended to be flexible and simple so anyone can report a crime with any PDA. False reporting is possible and it is up to security to determine if a crime report is credible or a hoax.
Moving on to the second point: Gameâs guidance
This is the part I feel like that was most talked about in the last week. I think most obvious solution to this problem is to remove âescape unrestrictedâ objective and âIn Custodyâ count. As I think they are the source of the problem. This way security doesnât feel like they have to arrest antagonists and give them max sentences even if they didnât do anything, and opens up more space for RP. This alone wonât fix the problem immediately but I think itâs a good start. As a side effect this can make antagonists less hesitant to do their objectives since their punishments will probably be lighter.
I think space law is a great way of guiding security since it is an in-character thing and also gives room for security to make their own decisions since space law is not meant to be followed exactly to the letter everytime, there are even examples of this in the rules section.
Lastly the third point: The issue of âwinningâ
This is very closely associated with the second point. I think there is nothing inherently wrong with playing to win because you can still roleplay while playing to win. I donât have any solutions for this part except redefine what winning means to security. I think it is currently beating all the antagonists, but I think it would be better for the game if it was protect the station. Just as an example this could be done by showing how many crewmembers died/survived, or how many explosions happened in the end screen.
I mean, a lot of the time you will just confiscate a gun from salvage or tell people to not rip up all the floors. As sec, command or snything inbetween, and the general response is to either refuse or complain sbout it in LOOC.
People call ANYTHING shitsec. No one cares about headâs orders either.
The server culture in general is that no one should ever stop your plans and that you are an asshole if you do.
Small thought. Regarding point 3, having no good ways to contact sec, I reference my time working in security. We had call boxes at a lot of places. Usually pools, parking lots, garages, commons areas, wherever. These call boxes would call a dedicated dispatcher to determine the situation and send EMS or LE as needed.
I offer a similar concept. Call boxes with a âfire alarmâ type function. Activate it, and it sends a sec comm channel and lights up a notice in the warden office, with an option to activate a speaker to tell them whatâs going on.
These could be outright destroyed or sabotaged to say itâs sending an alert but isnât really, which could be another thing for sec to do (rather than harass a tider over owning a baseball bat while vent critters are everywhereâŚ). Part of the standard patrols could be âCheck the call boxes for sabotage or damage.â
That concept in general could be expanded to involve more safety patrols from sec too, rather than being officialized validhunters whose only job is relegating bad guys to the past tense.
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Frankly if you get salvs guns off them they deserve it. Any salv worth their salt will just stay in space until they can demonstrate why they should have guns by ventilating a dragon.
yes it is a thing, it isnt wizden though, its Goob or Delta-V originating. There IS a abandoned one though, youve probably seen the yellow cartridges for it. not sure why it got dropped