Randy10122 - metagaming, self antag spree (given reason)

SS14 account username:  randy10122
Ban reason: “metagaming self antag spree, appeal on forums”
Date of ban: 5/02/2023
Length of ban: inf?
Events leading to the ban: friend dragged me into the idea of getting like a few people together to do a silly bit where we all looked the same and believed what each other said. we weren’t in a call or communicating out of game or anything, just all looked the same and had the idea beforehand. we were told somewhat early by the captain to kill someone for peace between us and him (we did so, got contacted by admins mid-game about it, cleared it up afaik), shit was just kinda normal from then on, no idea what the others did but i (acting as Samuel the Eigth) was just chillin mainly, a bit later some guy started hittin me with a mop, went to retaliate, and got banned in that moment (i think the rest of the samuels were banned as well)
Reason the ban should be removed: i. really dont feel like that was metagaming? like we weren’t communicating out of game at all. all of our communication was either in character in person or on radio. it was organised sure but i dont think it was doing any harm? at least i tried to minimise what i was doin. also i dont thing i selfantagged at all just imo i didnt really cause anything (again imo)

bumping(? no idea how this forum works) because bladgjhajhdgaheuiq :slight_smile:

5 hours ago, randy10122 said:

bumping(? no idea how this forum works) because bladgjhajhdgaheuiq :slight_smile:

bumping isn’t necessary. They move and lock threads when they’re resolved. They process ban appeals in batches whenever the admins have time to discuss them, so it can take 1-2 weeks sometimes for them to be processed.

Please answer the following additional questions:

  1. Who dragged you into the idea?
  2. How are you certain that no one in the group used out of game methods of communication during the round?
  3. Was the name you used during the round also agreed on prior to joining, like the appearance of your character?
  4. What was the extent of your involvement in the killing and gibbing of someone at the order of the captain?

2 hours ago, Chief_Engineer said:

Please answer the following additional questions:

  1. Who dragged you into the idea?
  2. How are you certain that no one in the group used out of game methods of communication during the round?
  3. Was the name you used during the round also agreed on prior to joining, like the appearance of your character?
  4. What was the extent of your involvement in the killing and gibbing of someone at the order of the captain?
  1. wufleee (acting as Samuel the First, already unnapealably permabanned and forumbanned)
  2. as far as i know, we all agreed to not use out-of-game comms, and i am completely certain the 2 people i knew in the group (monstrosity and wufleee) did not
  3. yes, we all agreed to number ourselves as such
  4. i hit him a few times and then ran off before the gibbing (i was beat to crit after i moved lol) 

9 hours ago, randy10122 said:

  1. wufleee (acting as Samuel the First, already unnapealably permabanned and forumbanned)
  2. as far as i know, we all agreed to not use out-of-game comms, and i am completely certain the 2 people i knew in the group (monstrosity and wufleee) did not
  3. yes, we all agreed to number ourselves as such
  4. i hit him a few times and then ran off before the gibbing (i was beat to crit after i moved lol) 

minor expansions because i wrote this in a rush and theres no edit button:

  1. wufleee (acting as Samuel the First) had the original idea and spread it around to all of us, as far as i know (she has already been unappealably permabanned (sort of unfair tbj) and banned on the forums)
  2. i am not entirely certain nobody was communicating out of game, but im 100% sure that at least monstrosity, wufleee and I were not using metacomms (we all (i assume EVERYONE) agreed on this beforehand)
  3. yes, the names were agreed on beforehand - from Samuel the First to Samuel the Eighth (mee)
  4. i did indeed participate in the killing, but left it at that - i was taking hits due to being in the Horde and tried to run away, someone picked me off while i was running. gibbing was not done by me

Waiting for admin to give me a thumbs up since I need voucher but I was the one who had the idea starting off.

 

Please answer the following additional questions:

 

  1. Who dragged you into the idea

  2. How are you certain that no one in the group used out of game methods of communication during the round?

  3. Was the name you used during the round also agreed on prior to joining, like the appearance of your character?

  4. What was the extent of your involvement in the killing and gibbing of someone at the order of the captain?

 

  1. It was my idea as I had said earlier. I had talked to people in the spacestation14 discord if it counts as metagaming if I name myself the same as my buddies. Everyone agreed that it isn’t metagaming as long as we aren’t talking to each other. So, I rounded up some friends I met through SS14 which were wuflee, and amy. I had told wuflee about my idea and such and he thought it was a good idea, so he talked to others which I assume now are randy and mon. 

  2. I told everyone we could do this ONLY on the condition that we are not in call. I can clear Randy and Mon for certain because I do not even have them added on discord, so I have no way at all to even talk to them. However for everyone else, I had explicitly said not to vc with anyone who is in game. Everyone agreed, and through wuflee randy and mon agreed. You can check logs and see several times as well that we were inconsistent with plans showing that we had no real goal set in stone and we were communicating on what to do through game chat. Which is why you’d see some samuels saying lets go to med, others saying chapel, and bridge, etc. Nobody had been in contact with each other during the round. We only all joined same time because we msgd our gc saying time to hop on.

 

  1. If you are talking about the samuel name and character look then yes. That was agreed prior to the round, by days. Not the round before but days beforehand. The whole bit was that all samuels were related like cousins and such. Which is why they’d look the same.

 

  1. I cannot say to speak for anyone on this since everyone has a different mindset for this question.

 

Not trying to peanut post or vouch for myself, but I was the one who started this idea so I figured to help clear the air some. Sorry if this was interference.

Just to be clear from a cursory glance at the discord, not a single administrator or game admin was involved in the conversation of if your actions would be considered metagaming or not. Only one or two users indicated it would “probably be fine if you weren’t in a call” however multiple people stated that you “should avoid metafriending” and others still said metafriending in that manner should probably be avoided.

15 hours ago, randy10122 said:

minor expansions because i wrote this in a rush and theres no edit button:

  1. wufleee (acting as Samuel the First) had the original idea and spread it around to all of us, as far as i know (she has already been unappealably permabanned (sort of unfair tbj) and banned on the forums)
  2. i am not entirely certain nobody was communicating out of game, but im 100% sure that at least monstrosity, wufleee and I were not using metacomms (we all (i assume EVERYONE) agreed on this beforehand)
  3. yes, the names were agreed on beforehand - from Samuel the First to Samuel the Eighth (mee)
  4. i did indeed participate in the killing, but left it at that - i was taking hits due to being in the Horde and tried to run away, someone picked me off while i was running. gibbing was not done by me

From your perspective, did wufleee appear to be the person primarily responsible for organizing this or did they just seem to be the one who brought you in? If they didn’t seem responsible for the organization, who did?

How are you certain that monstrosity and wufleee did not use out-of-game comms during the round?

Another person involved in the situation indicated that they were told that, at some point prior to the round, an admin had approved of the plan. Did someone also tell or otherwise communicate to you that an admin had approved? If so, who was it communicated to you by, do you know how the admin was contacted or who the admin was, and do you remember what specifically you were told an admin approved of?

Another person involved in the situation indicated that the group had decided that each member would be required to believe anything any other person from the group told them. Is this true?

1 hour ago, Chief_Engineer said:

From your perspective, did wufleee appear to be the person primarily responsible for organizing this or did they just seem to be the one who brought you in? If they didn’t seem responsible for the organization, who did?

How are you certain that monstrosity and wufleee did not use out-of-game comms during the round?

Another person involved in the situation indicated that they were told that, at some point prior to the round, an admin had approved of the plan. Did someone also tell or otherwise communicate to you that an admin had approved? If so, who was it communicated to you by, do you know how the admin was contacted or who the admin was, and do you remember what specifically you were told an admin approved of?

Another person involved in the situation indicated that the group had decided that each member would be required to believe anything any other person from the group told them. Is this true?

i wrote something for this but the reply didnt go through it looks like!! hopefully im not posting twice

 

yeah it seemed like wuf was organising it at the time (but it turns out i was wrong, see above reply)

i know mon and wuf quite well and i feel like they would have invited me if they were in a vc or gc or something :stuck_out_tongue:

i was not aware of any admin confirmation, i read the plan as wuflee gave it to me (which i can show if you are interested) and assumed it would go over fine

this is true, it was part of the bit - although it didnt really work out as we were all bunched up

12 minutes ago, randy10122 said:

i read the plan as wuflee gave it to me (which i can show if you are interested)

Yes, if you’re willing to share it I would be interested and think the other admins may be also.

13 minutes ago, randy10122 said:

this is true, it was part of the bit - although it didnt really work out as we were all bunched up

Can you elaborate on how you all being bunched up prevented the bit from working? At any point during the round did you witness anyone say anything, or say anything yourself, that others in the group, had they been following the plan, would have been required to believe?

26 minutes ago, Chief_Engineer said:

Yes, if you’re willing to share it I would be interested and think the other admins may be also.

image.pngimage.pngimage.png

here ya go :slight_smile:

31 minutes ago, Chief_Engineer said:

Can you elaborate on how you all being bunched up prevented the bit from working?

my assumption was that we’d all walk around and do like. whatever passengers normally do but we would run into each other every now and then and have a little exchange 

 

31 minutes ago, Chief_Engineer said:

At any point during the round did you witness anyone say anything, or say anything yourself, that others in the group, had they been following the plan, would have been required to believe?

7th told me that 3rd was trying to kill me and i tried to roleplay something with that but they were preoccupied being in the Horde so i just kinda told 7th that we made peace 

Thank you

On 2/8/2023 at 3:46 PM, Chief_Engineer said:

Thank you

this is such an ominous reply it is driving me MENTAL

There’s no meaning behind it other than thanking you for the earlier response.

There are five appeals open across five different users for the same offense. To save everyone some time, I am going to copy/paste this response which will contain dispositions for each player involved in this. These dispositions represent the consensus of the entire administration team, not just myself.

The Issue

A large group of individuals pre-planned an appearance and naming scheme to facilitate identifying one another in-game. This identification of one another was used to form a mob and act as a cohesive unit to which other players had little hope of doing anything against due to the number of players involved. This is metagaming (using outside information, who those other players actually are, to your advantage). This mob of individuals engaged in a large amount of disruptive activity generally taking the form of a protest or riot (saying “peaceful riot” doesn’t change the fact you are calling for a riot, which would fall into “calling for strikes, revolutions, cults, etc.”).

Regardless of if the metacommunication was done during the round or done before the round to pre-plan this does not matter, we still see it as metacommunication and it was clearly abused to the detriment of other players not involved in it. 

The Verdicts

Rodriguez_Hasselhoff - As this is your second appeal ban, you will remain appeal banned and require a voucher of good behavior from another SS13/SS14 server to appeal. You may only provide that voucher and an appeal after six months from now (Aug 11, 2023).

Wulfeee - You, alongside Rodriguez, appear to be the primary instigators or organizers of this. It seems clear to us from a discord screenshot provided by randy10122 that you intended to bend the rules to your advantage to facilitate the metamob without using the textbook definition of metacommunications. You also were forum banned while we mysteriously had a bunch of users we had never seen before show up on Rodriguez’s first appeal. While I have undone your forum ban, you will remain appeal banned and it is highly unlikely you will successfully appeal your ban without a voucher of good behavior from another SS13/SS14 server.

WYATTWYATT100 - Your ban will be reduced to one week from now. From what I see in the logs you were clearly orchestrating a mob or riot to the detriment of the station. Multiple instances of you directing the mob or trying to instigate it to cause trouble or antagonize people. You have been cordial within the appeal, so we will step this down to only a week for now.

randy10122 - We will accept this appeal.

Monstrosity - We will accept this appeal.

elixirsoup - We will accept this appeal.

R3TR0_T4P3Z - We will accept this appeal.

 

Our banning policy dictates that the next appeal ban after the first will automatically be a voucher ban. Voucher bans require a voucher of good behavior from another SS13/SS14 server and are unappealable for six months after they have been issued. For those unbanned, if you wish to continue playing on Wizard’s Den we strongly suggest you re-read the rules and be on very good behavior.

From Accepted to Ban Appeals