As of now, security departments suffers from a huge amount of issues:
Rules regarding what security is and isn’t allowed are extremely broad and not intuitive. Some of them do not even appear on the normal list of rules - you have to specifically search for rule specifications on the forums in order to even know they exist. Some of the clarifications are outdated, some only apply to MRP or LRP, some of them are being changed post-factum, some of them are not intuitive (for example, you are allowed to check for an uplink during a search, but you are not allowed to mention that uplinks are in PDAs before you actually discover them). Overall, these clarifications should not be separate from the rules - expecting people to search for the rules instead of giving the rule list directly is bound to result in people rightfully being unsatisfied when receiving an ahelp.
Security is held to extremely high standarts, especially on MRP. Even command roles do not deal with these standarts. Lots of messages in #admin-questions on Discord are being made specifically in order to get proof that you are allowed to do something.
Security is currently extremely weak in terms of force. With recent merged PRs that add more chaos to the game(for example, event rate buff and sleeper agents addition), security gets overwhelmed almost every single round. Security simply does not possess resources and manpower to deal with so many threats.
There are too many players that specifically aim to make security job worse (this is the definition of people I will call “shitters” in the rest of this thread). I am not speaking about antagonists - shitters are non-antag players that aim to commit crime every single round. Breaking into EVA as clown every single round is something that (apparently) is not considered self-antagonism, although it should be. Breaching custody without good reason (such as being permaed on MRP for simply having contraband, NOT simply because you don’t agree with a punishment) should be against the rules, not only when it is done multiple times and the shift is already ruined.
Certain “server culture” is borderline self-antagonism and should be punished way more by admins. This is similar to point 4, but refers to a different phenomen. For example, some people thing that they have full right to own contraband (usually passengers or salvagers). This is okay when this is something like a syndie balloon, but I’ve seen people saying that they should be allowed to use chameleon gear, assault weapons or hypopens because “Salvage Code” or “I found it in maints, therefore it is mine” or something. Sometimes certain shitters even tell with a straight face that security items picked up from a slipped officer no longer belong to them. This is more of an actual mindset problem, sadly.
Talking to people as security officer is punishing, although it has to be rewarding instead. If you are typing in chat, people can and will use it against you to magdump you, slip you or run away. Disobeying security should be way more punishing.
This is more of a consequence of beforementioned points, but security is understaffed as a result. Sometimes you can join security at 30 players and have only 1-3 security members only, and some of them may be warden/detective, meaning that patrolling and dealing with criminals is not their direct job.
Note: this feedback is mostly made for MRP. I no longer play on LRP, so I cannot guarantee the same applies to LRP security.
I only really wanna respond to point 6 which I thought was pretty interesting. How do you end up being slipped when you’re standing still and typing? Other than that you can successfully talk with people as security from my experience if you just try to play along with people. I have managed to capture silly billies by simply playing along with whatever they were doing until starting to crack down, at which point all sides were just having fun, which I think is a win in my book.
Regarding other points I agree, it can be pretty CBT to play Security sometimes especially with the extreme vagueness and general unawareness of what rules there are.
A few of the admins talked about ‘forced roleplay’, where players would rather interact within their department rather than be forced to deal with security
Anyway, as a LRP player who had security as their most played job:
Self-antags and shitters - difficult to punish and have to be handled IC (excluding extreme disruption or discrimination). If you’re lucky they’ll just suicide or SSD, other times they’ll break brig windows or punch everyone. Obviously this ruins the experience for everyone, but especially security who often have to restrain and detain these players.
Solution: Sometimes they really need a gmod-style timeout cage with an admin
Culture towards security - can be uncooperative (trolling, not offering to give witness statment) to borderline antagonistic (stealing from dead security officers or rioting). Often the crew can’t get accountability because lawyers tend to be ignored and bad officers/decisions are rarely punished by either command or admins.
It also doesn’t help that memories of bad departments (even with different players) often permeate across rounds - we remember those rounds where security dropped the ball (they didn’t arm crew against zombies or your corpse got missed by several patrols). Unfortunately goodwill is almost impossible to get back, and other players just don’t like engaging with sec at the very least.
Solution: ???
Culture towards antags - calling out validhunting has devolved into not helping security at all or calling out antag actions/locations. Whilst no one on either side wants four tiders rushing someone with a China Lake or planned gimmick, there is a lot of shame or disinterest in at least spotting antags or provide other assistance. Thankfully most of the crew are still respectful enough to drag sec corpses to medical.
Solution: ???
Lack of communication between security - there is almost no way of telling which officers are available or SSD/dead without a crew monitor console. Radio messages are missed or ignored often, and the criminal records console does a lot of heavy lifting. This also leads to slow response times to emergencies, with targets already gibbed by the time a security detail is formed.
Solution: ???
Security equipment is often scarce or rarely buffed - equipment remains the same despite more antags and new/buffed syndicate equipment per shift. Bolas and stingers are powerful for security, yet the former isn’t mapped (crafting a lot is slow) and the latter is limited.
Typically we also only have one to two security hardsuits for the entire department. Unfortunately spacing is incredibly easy and dangerous, and almost every antag is either immune to spacing or can get hardsuits. Keep in mind items like hardsuits are highly valuable and often stolen or lost.
Solution: More mapped security equipment, port more equipment from SS13 (no stat buffs yet)
Wardens have too many responsibilities - they often deal with prisoner processing, prisoner containment, watching cameras, and keeping the armoury secure. Unfortunately they can rarely all these tasks at once - it only takes a single shitter wasting the warden’s time for nukies to breach the armoury.
Solution: have one or two civilian guard roles (equivalent to lawyers)
Sec map design is flawed - speaking of which, both the armoury and the HoS’ office routinely face space and easily accessible with a single C4 or RCD. Either way, the HoS loses their hardsuit while security has to find the nearest airlock (which tends to be a long walk around the station).
Slower gameplay in SS13 probably balanced out the old map design, but wardens in SS14 are expected to run into the armoury and grab as many guns as they can while 5 nukies run inside (they don’t need to go prone anymore!)
Short-term solution: proximity alarms around security
Long-term solution: redesign the maps and reinforce walls/glass around security
No way of chasing antags with AA - requires getting access with HoP, yet HoP is either never around or deceased (and you can’t get AA before issues arise without powergaming). Borgs are unreliable due to increased frequency of ion storm events. This was likely less of an issue in SS13 due to AI.
Short-term solution: limited-use (timer or charges) AA cards from the warden - burns out with use, requires a written warrant
Long-term solution: remote door control console from HoP or warden as AI replacement
Not allowing antag selection before command or security - means players won’t pick them and cause understaffed security roundstart. I’ve personally seen revs or syndies pick off command and security as they arrive one at a time when seeing 8 engies to 1 cadet on the crew manifest. I’ve also seen security be outnumbered by syndies in most shifts, with some shifts having up to 10 to 12 syndies for maybe 8 or 9 security.
Solution: Redo antag selection so selecting security doesn’t prevent you from picking another role with antag selections, and/or lower antag count until further notice
Lack of innovation - I have seen Medical, Botany and antags tactics endlessly discussed between players on Discord, yet almost none for security. Security thus stagnates and is uninteresting despite potentially cool strategies such as patrolling in pairs or going undercover in departments.
The rule on uplinks is specifically about metagaming. IE, if you are mentioning uplinks before you actually find one, you are seen as metagaming what game mode it is, or metagaming certain players as to their capabilities before you’ve actually discovered them in game. But yes, clarifications should not be separate from the rules in multiple places no one is going to look.
Its generally held to the highest standard as security playing badly can destroy a round about as fast as a teslaloose can, but in an even more unfun way. Rounds are driven by antagonists doing things and security responding. If security just metagames them and prevents them from doing anything, the round has just been prematurely stopped from happening.
Security is in a really bad state right now because of two reasons. First, it precludes a person’s ability to be an antag, so a large amount of players will just never queue up because of security rolling before antag. Second, the wielding PR ruined gunplay, so I’ve seen many just not playing security who normally would because they don’t want to deal with combat right now. Usually the first issue is bad enough, but with the second, the game has an unplayably low amount of security most shifts now. Just as antags are important to a round, actually having a security force to deal with them is too.
If people are doing petty crimes, you’ve got to use your judgement as a security officer to set priorities. Petty crimes are not self-antagonism. People will often go around bureaucracy to do their jobs, or have no real job on the station like passengers and the clown. It feels bad right now because of issue 3, meaning security is often overwhelmed by petty crime to the point of harming its ability to deal with antags. That isn’t player’s fault though, that’s the fault of choices the maintainers have made that have led to security being understaffed.
Once again, owning contraband is petty crime. But it also has an important in game reason for existing. It is there to stop metagaming. If passengers can possess contraband, then security can’t metagame whether someone is a syndicate or not merely for owning contraband, they actually have to do something in the round first like attempting a murder. As a security officer, you have to use your judgement whether the contraband is worth confiscating though. It isn’t worth confiscating every tider’s piece of drip because you will make people hate you. There are plenty of laws in real life that officers don’t enforce to the letter of the law (like jaywalking) exactly for this point. In cases where the contraband is deadly, you are perfectly justified in taking it though and giving them time. If they actually use the contraband, that is different.
As for the stealing of weapons, this is why sec needs to not patrol alone, as it is easier to punish a tider for this kind of behavior if another security officer is free to arrest them. Arrest them and give them harsh sentences for this kind of behavior, especially if they are interfering with an arrest.
The reality of the game is that as a security officer, you are not the protaganist. Sometimes you are going to get unceremoniously magdumped. Antags drive the round, not you, and as a result, they have the initiative and can do things you shouldn’t be doing. Its harder for them to do this if you have another officer with you though.
I think this is mistaking the effect for the cause. A lot of these problems are caused by security being understaffed and unable to buddy up with one extra person, not the reason why security was understaffed in the first place. When you have a full security staff, petty crimes go from something that make your job too hard to do, to something that gives you something to do during all the downtime a round has when antags just aren’t doing much. Confiscating contraband becomes much easier when you aren’t the only officer around to do it. You stop getting jumped because you have an officer with you and a buddy system going. And generally tiders act more cautiously against a full security team that they know they can’t get away with everything against. Being one of the only ones playing security is demoralizing and difficult.
I agree with everything but the contraband part on the point 4.
Excluding sec and command everyone is allowed to use contraband (sec gear is not contraband but it can be illegal to keep without permission or requires stealing for acquiring said gear) as it is only illegal in space law, what really matters is if they use it for do self antag or not, but regardless what they do with it if sec notices the contraband they are in their full right to confiscate the contraband and/or arrest the person holding said contraband.
Yes, I get it. I specifically talk about the cases where people are using non-pointless contraband - this shouldn’t be mapped in the first place. For example, Train used to have literal jaws in maints - this kind of “gamer loot” is just something that should not be available to non-antags every single round, only if they can somehow get it from another person or find it in maints (with a LOW chance, not guaranteed every round).
I think one large issue is how easy it is to fight back against officers with extremely easy to obtain tools through disabling them with stuff like most slips, pies, making a puddle with a mop or buying noslips, ect. slips are several times more worth it to scavenge for than most improvised weapons are to make
Someone has said it before me but combat at the moment is revolvant around disabling the other party as fast as possible, even if nonlethaly which is exactly what most of the listed items do
My solution is to either make (Most, Excluding syndi, omega soaps and lube)slips chance based, biased towards NOT slipping, or to decrease their accessibility somehow
I agree with this idea. I think that security should have tools easily available to them that the majority of non-antagonists are at a significant disadvantage, even when security officers are sticking to entirely non-lethal options.
The fact that security often has to chase already starts them off at a disadvantage, and widespread and easily accessible slipping options only make the situation worse for security
I’m already planning to PR items such as energy bolas and riot launchers
I also have a currently frozen pr that aims to bring down most slip times to be less punishing in combat yet useful for disarming (the other idea was to make sec boots reduce slip timer but that would’ve been less acceptable).
Security already has the stun meta on its side, round start. The irony is that as powercreep has been added for security with tools like round-start sec glasses and the like, less people have been playing it because of quality of life nerfs to combat. I don’t feel like one security officer buffed up to be able to take on the entire station is an ideal state for security in the long run.
I don’t think one security officer should be able to take on the entire station, and antagonists should definitely be more evenly matched up with security or even have an advantage against a single security officer.
I think the issue right now is that any benefit provided by stuns is lost rapidly with range. Even with disablers it can be hard to hit someone who is weaving in a hallway while running away. With that, all anyone really needs to do to massively take away security’s stun advantage is to gain some distance, and all security can really do to prevent that is to stun first ask questions later, which imo isn’t great for the RP aspect of the game
Yes, but security can always mark someone who has escaped to be captured later. They don’t communicate this kind of thing often because they are new players, so sometimes a shitter just escapes and… that’s that. The officer is frustrated and doesn’t know what to do because they don’t understand how their department works, but in reality, capturing someone who has already had an encounter with security and has been marked as wanted should be really simple, especially since security will likely have the initiative the second time. Or they should, but in reality, most of the time players just steal all those sec glasses that security were given round start because now there is no tradeoff between knowing your status and avoiding their flashes. Its ironically a much more powerful tool in the hands of shitters and antags than it is in the hands of security, and now the station is overflowing with them.
The issue here isn’t that security is underpowered, its that security is often unrobust, understaffed, and doesn’t even use the tools it has available. Tranq rounds, for instance, are incredibly overpowered. You can ask literally any big name in the game’s antag scene just how overpowered they are. But I’ve literally never had one used against me before or seen one in action in game because most security officers don’t know the capabilities of their department. This is because the regulars in this game do not play security, security never has enough people to actually train cadets, and sometimes their entire force is -just- cadets.
Unless you are hos/warden making tranqs yourself, you are never getting tranqs, even when station already escalated to lethals, thats pretty much reality of sec. People with armory access are allergic to maintaining it at all and even nerfed beanbags can be uphill battle to get…
Normalize secfab out of armory, in locker room or pre-armory miniroom.
It’s true that security being able to mark someone can make evading security for the rest of the round a pain, but if they know (or assume) that they’ve been marked as wanted, then they can just avoid getting close to security and each interaction is going to have security at a disadvantage because security is having to chase. Security working together would hopefully turn things back in their favor, but at that point they’re putting a lot more resources into arresting a non-antag than I think they should need to.
It’s fine if an antag takes multiple security officers working together to have a shot at stopping, the point of antags is to be disruptive, but from what I’ve seen and heard it sounds like the reason that experienced players don’t like playing security is because they don’t like how easy and often non-antags are able to make themselves a major problem for security