Departmental Budgets and Acquisitions Slips

In the departmental economy design document , the flow of the old cargo system was criticized for having too much friction due to its many steps required between a player wanting to order something, and the reception of the player’s order.

As described in the design document, here is the old workflow of cargo that departmental economies were meant to slim down :

1 : Player walks to cargo
2: Player finds a tech and tells them what they want
3: Tech thinks and argues about whether they should get it
4:Tech actually gets permission to use those funds and orders it; if they even have the funds to spare
5:Tech goes with cargo to trade station, retrieves the goods, and brings it back
6:Tech alerts the original player about the product in question, or delivers
it
7:Player has the thing they wanted

The departmental budget’s previous implementation. with instant internal approval, reduced the work flow as mentioned in the design document to :

1: Player goes to the departmental console and purchases something their department needs
2: Cargo techs notice the new purchase; prepare to go grab it from the trade station
3:Techs retrieve it from the trade station and deliver it to the department that ordered it
4:Player has the thing they wanted

This system seemed to have encountered pushback in the Delta-V community. As I do not play there, I will only comment on what others have said.

The criticism can be focused to the reduction in cargo’s duties, as they no longer need to proactively order other department’s goods, and the subsequent reduction in cargo’s authority and opportunities for conflict that the original cargo system presented.

Based on these criticism, the acquisition slips model of cargo seemed to have been developed. Now the work flow looks like this :

1: Player goes to the departmental console and prints a slip for their goods.
2 : Player walks to cargo
3: Player finds a tech and tells them what they want, passing them the slip
4: Tech thinks and argues about whether they should get it
5:Tech actually gives permission to use other department’s funds and orders it
6:Tech goes with cargo to trade station, retrieves the goods, and brings it back
7:Tech alerts the original player about the product in question, or delivers
it
8 :Player has the thing they wanted

This work flow seems to revert the cargo model to the pre - departmental budget era, creating more friction between players and their orders. From an outside perspective, this seems like a contradiction to the core design of departmental budgets. Not only is the possibility for a player to never receive their order increases, but cargo now acquires spending authority over all other budgets, seemingly rendering them pointless, as giving cargo 100% of the funds would actually make this work flow exactly like to original cargo model and reduce friction once again.

Whilst I understand to want for more friction and authority for cargo, these seems to be directly opposed to the want of departmental budgets to reduce friction.

Have I missed some important detail or misunderstood something ? How can cargo’s core gameplay be influenced so much with opposing design goals in so little time ?

3 Likes

Nope. That is the whole thing please, please return us to the old system

Just put another ordering computer on the outside of cargo like in some stations. then anyone can come along and put in the department ticket and get back to work without waiting for a cargo tech, but still have to walk to cargo which i assume was why they changed off the old system.

Why can’t we just have the departmental console but have cargo/heads of the department be the only ones who can approve purchases?

That way cargo is involved unless the person making the purchase can convince their boss to take a look.

1 Like

Why do you assume that cargo has authority over other department’s spending ?
Like, its not just the quartermaster, salvage and regular cargo techs can deny other departments, or even other command members, Why ?

Like I said when we talked about it, I think some medium needs to exist. The first implementation of budgets was nice but yea cargo lost a fair amount of identity on that. The new version regains that idenity but is honestly in most ways a worse version (imo) of not having budgets at all. What i was thinking, due to the first budget implementation having an issue of many shipments just getting lost/routed to the wrong area (probably a uniquely lrp issue) is have the system we have now but use the slip instead to unlock the crate maybe? Then you still have instant ordering, the slips are still a thing and things go the right place. The one hiccup is idk how you would do this and have crates that have dept requirements to open. Maybe instead the slip is used to unwrench the item from the buy pallet on the ats?

My ideal would be you take the request to cargo and it comes out your department account and arrives in a crate locked to your department so cargo or tiders can nab it in transit. bonus points if its also unsellable like the toy box so cargo cant just resell it and has to break it or ship it.

I’m really glad someone has brought up this issue. As you laid out, this version of departmental budget essentially takes the old flow of orders and adds an additional step for no benefit.

I have seen acquisition slips defended by people saying that it re-adds RP into the Cargo department, but I don’t think a meaningless interaction that requires no words to complete makes for good RP. The number one question I would like to ask is: Does a cargo tech ever have a valid reason to reject another department’s order? When and why would a cargo tech have that authority to tell anyone that they can’t spend their own money? So, if orders will always be approved, then the conversation is completely pointless because there is nothing to argue about. It just forces two people to make an extra trip back and forth for no reason.

Are you able to fax slips to cargo via a printer?
I’ve only started playing recently and this felt like a pretty no-brainer feature to allow, though since it can be tricky to find a printer I usually resort to walking.

What if the acquisition slips were made to work as receipts instead. What I mean is this: you order using your department computer, it buys the item and prints a receipt. Once cargo delivers the item, the person who bought it hands over the receipt and the tech takes it back to cargo. They put it in the cargo computer to earn some money from the delivery. Maybe 5% or 10% of the order’s value.
I think that would be a lot more fun and engaging than what they’re currently used for.

I want to see a breakdown of how much time it takes for a head of department to place an order and to receive it in their department.

From my experience, an average round is around one hour. Placing an order on departmental console is real easy, so no time spent there. Getting the cargo that I paid for with department funds? That’s often not happening at all. Lets be generous and say cargo is going constantly from station to ATS entire shift. Loading/unloading the shuttle at station/ATS takes about 1 minute or 2 depending on amount of crates. One way trip to ATS can take 1 minute, or 2 if the pilot is bad. Return trip can take longer due to pilot getting lost in the numerous station docking ports, but let’s say it’s the same 1 or 2 minutes. That gives you in perfect conditions, 4-8 minute time for the two-way trip and loading/unloading combined.

Lets assume there’s no pauses between these, so in the very best scenario you get 15 trips in a round. In the very worst (as in 8 minutes/trip) scenario, you get ~7 trips per round. Realistically, you will never see 15 trips as there’s salvage borrowing the shuttle, downtime due to nobody to fly it, “not enough orders” to be worth the trip, antags, self antags etc.

If you have bad timing on your department console purchase (shuttle just undocked from ATS) you’ll be looking at upward of 10 minutes before you get your crate just delivered to the station. That’s all assuming only mechanical interactions.

Is that time reasonable? In my opinion, no. There’s just too many factors that obstruct delivery and can cause the ordered items to just untraceably disappear, in addition to the long time.

1 Like

There are plenty of scenarios, like raw materials, in which cargo has spare stock of stuff. In this case cargo can just reject the new order and deliver what they already have.

This doesn’t make much sense. The crew doing the order has extremely little incentive to keep the receipt around, and it’s not like cargo is gonna refuse to deliver the crate if they can’t get the receipt.

Also, I don’'t think “delivery RP” was ever an issue? Cargo still has to deliver the crate and probably talk to somebody in the department. They can do that if they want to with or without the slips.

The extra benafit is you no longer need to Justify your purchase to Cargo or deal with cargo gambling all the stations money away or another department being greedy and over spending. Now days you have your department funds, if you need more than that you can still negotiate with cargo.

2 Likes

Acquisition slips do require you to justify your purchases to cargo, since they require approval. They can even be denied by cargo for any reason.

1 Like

Everytime i’ve gone to cargo since the update with my department slip asking for department based stuff they just approve on the spot. If your cargo is questioning what your doing with department funds then they either are anoying, or your buying things that are questionable.

thats a lot of assumptions, in the short time since the update, I’ve seen my order denied for being security, or just straight up ignored because cargo was busy. Mechanically speaking, there’s no limit or check on cargo approving or denying orders, they can do it for any reason, not just good faith ones. Theres a number of ways in which your approval could be delayed or rejected, from power cuts to meteors, to random anomalies or just RP reasons.

Previously, they can just not deliver you the crate.

Previously, they can just not deliver you the crate.

you under estimate my play time :3
since the update i think i’ve put in about 40-50 hours.

honesly I am of the opnion that slips should be instantly approved upon entering cargo’s computer.

Submits SMG ticket as Medical for my kill objective and Hops desk to borrow telepad.

Maaaaybe some oversight is good.