noslip will always be mandatory unless slips are wildly nerfed somehow which doesn’t seem to be on the cards
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Prob wizden thing again.
Agent literally have comm kit to communicate with nukies. That`s what its for.(not for you to build your own comm server)
Warning big wall of text
In ss13
You can help nukies as long as you finish your objective. Which was usually done by getting rid of crew that want fighting, arming nuke one minute before shuttle arival.
And traitor using either emag or dead command id. Wizden vision is that greentext before all, roleplay be damned. Which is different from ss13 vision(RP 1st - objective can be bent around it).
Which is why you can see people so focused on meta with not RP, its encourage to be that way. And as we know, person that dont RP allmost always win
That`s why in 13 you will always see nukies try to leave(even under risk of defuse of said bomb), even tho their greentext is to explode bomb. Because what sane person would stand near bomb when its go off?
They will also call evac, bolt down in safe place and time nuke around it. If crew dont gonna valid rush them.
In 14 you will see everything attempt to attack nukies with a toolbox or fist. Its rare to se people even try to RP. Because RP will be most likely punished by gods if it does not grant you text in the fastest way possible. Because what sane person rush guy with a damn machine gun with full military setup with nothing but toolbox?
Command\sec also not allowed to talk to nukies. In ss13 command sometimes negotiate escape for crew who does not fight. And then will go one side against other in a battle. In ss14 even talking to nukie can get you roleban and i mean just talking. If you even say “Let`s negotiate” you will most likely get bwoiked then and there
Sometimes captain gonna duel nukkie commander for disk. But before it throw a party with nukies(RP interaction party) and secure crew escape on evac. You will get ban in ss14 for this
Sometimes nukies do infiltrate and RP being a new hires for half of round. They will get gibed on a spot without any evidence, because command limited in their RP interactions and afraid if they succeed someone from command will get roleban. And someone form command tell them to leave them alone - you will still get half of server stalking them(LITERALLY)
SS14 is Greentext>RP and because of it is like a moba\counter-strike. With fast paced rounds.
SS13 RP>Greentext that why you can see shift that go up to four hours sometimes in SS13
That`s my take on it. And i accept ss14 for what it is. And yes comparing them is right since its posed as successor to ss13. Yet cultures around interactions could not be more different.
Even as not antag. In 13 if you go through paperwork to create Tesla shuttle and RP is as “New modular desigh for NT station. Many specos in proffits!” You will be allowed.
In SS14 if anyone from command sigh that? They are getting permaban with 87% chance
Many things, roles, mechanics and other stuff in SS13 came from RP shinenigans like this. Like thing were literally developed and created because someone did something insane or RP something into existence.
SS14 just copying existing stuff without knowledge or care why it was there in a 1st place.
Examples
Wizzard not always need to be murdebone antag(which is why their kit is what it is)
Agents can fail their kill someone objective and turn themselves in(friendship between characters developed via RP)
Agents can also join nukies, which usually means they changed employer from waffles to Cybersun for example(But you will need to RP this to be valid. And it can make you sindie kill target for a week on a server afterwards. Gods will make a sleeper target manually for a week)
Sec off can RP being a table worker with pacifist trait. And do Warden paperwork instead of any arrests or combat
You can listen to antag demands as hostage or in hostage situation as sec or command without getting banned.
Mime or clown damages or messed wiring? You can roleplay mental breakdown and o a knee surgery on them with a bat till they die and then surrender to sec without getting banned(serve your time)
Same for example goes with brig(perma). You kill someone, here is your brig sentence.(which you can be broken out by ally or yourself. Who may not even be a traitor if your rp was good enough between each other) In ss14 its just a copied thing without use. It`s either 5-10 min in sec or straight execution.
You have right to PDA and comms, which are not checked if you are not a syndicate suspect. If you committed stealing or killed someone you and sec did not find sindie items on you, they will most likely dont check your headset. Which means they stay with you in your cell and brig.
Only thing taken is your ID, which will be turned into prisoner ID
also I was reading through some ss13 wikis. apperently (atleast on /TG/) nukies get agent ID free (with maints access)
No-Slips are 100% a required item because slips are so damn strong. If not both the ID and the No-Slips, I think Nukies should just get No-Slips for free. It has to be the most bought item for Nukies by a mile.
No-Slips being essential basically means that the 2 TC that gets spent on them is a guaranteed cost, so Nukies are starting with 38 TC always. A 2 TC buff won’t break anything either.
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Agent ID is a staple of EVERY nuke ops. The syndie ID thing was a bit much though.
No slips cost 2tc, stop you from slipping, you slow when hurt, and do nothing in 0 gravity
Magboots cost 4 tc, have a jetpack, slow you when on, work in 0 gravity, and you slow when
combat boots, are free, you slow less when hurt, and can carry a knife (or pistol), and you can still slip
Each boot has positives and negatives. (and I want 2 extra TC to buy barber scissors and shave the captains head after I kill him)
Not really. Unless you are going lube ops(you lube area where you deploy nuke), you can do without it.
But i do can see why sliping is strong on wizden, since you cannot crawl on purpose and automatically get up(some servers change this, so its not a big deal there). Which means lube is a permastun
While in 13 and some other ss14 servers you just crawl and shoot as nukie, which also make everything that is not targeted at you miss(if person point cursor around you or behind you they miss)
Basically no slip is a crutch for a bigger problem.
Also the direction towards meta spam play will turn this RP game into League of Legends.
Nukies are supposed to be creative in their approach to the station. Agent ID is for stealth infiltration, checking what is where, coming back and then doing ops(originally)
What players always do is Counter-Strike go go go pew pew. Every single time. And getting no slips for free will remove choice and creative ways. And only reinforce same boring blitz\war ops in every game for forever and ever.
I did not see nukies use -
lube,
razorium nades,
infiltration ops,
recon ops,
box ops,
engi ops(time power going out permenantly after you sleep gas a distro),
cargo ops(overtake cargo, play as cargo, get specos, emag console, buy all the weapons).
Damn i didn`t even see tider ops once. One of the most strong ops - since everyone ignore tiders. Which allow you to do so much, including jumping cap unaware with nocturine, switch sensor to vitals and take his comms. And then one guy keeping him alive and restrained. Until operator take nuke from vault into maints and go to “tider shop” you built. Which is just a fortress for combat(with traps for people without insuls).
And dont even start me on beacon ops. (you put beacon so singulo or tesla eats arsenal. Its on your nukie ship. The moment arsenal hit, you radio pilot to lead it away from statiion and into space. You disable beacon afterward and fly around).
And if its tesla. If team flukes, you make sure nothing left of station with your beacon.
And so many other ways to play it
As it now. Its just same counterstrike round for geentext. Thats it.
No one even pilot nukie ship to get away. No one bombs wall to use nukie ship as gunship for cover. No one run towards it when 20-30 second left.(because if you throw RP aside. Why would you run from greentext?)
This really isn’t as big as you make it seem, giving nukies free blood reds, free guns and their objective being to literally nuke the station will does 100x more to promote nukies fighting in combat than giving them no slips would.
While yes, creative nukie strategies are fun, you gotta remember that killing everyone in their way to nuke the station is literally their intended playstyle and gameplay mechanics should support the intended role (also with most creative strategies, no-slips are usually still vital). Half of your issue sounds like a lrp/nrp issue, my last nukeops on salamander (mrp) we renovated the nukie ship into a bar, sold drinks until the cap came on board and hired (threatened) a sleeper agent to be our getaway pilot.
While yes you can literally do without it, doing so is really stupid, remember the place diona had in nukeops was obsolete without shoes, watch any liltenhead nukie video and you’ll see some poor seccie without slip protection die, loose their gun, or miss a vital opportunity to slipping (and it’s funny every time).
On the whole slipping is an issue thing.
Is there room for improvement with a crawling system? Yes
Are the current slipping mechanics bad? No
Current slipping is fine, it’s funny, it makes combat silly, it’s a mechanic you can take advantage of, it’s just a very ‘space station’ mechanic.
(I’ll add in quotes later as I wrote this on my phone, sorry @MagadaDaSkolin)
Separate thing, slip protection is like giving them flash protection. It’s the closest 1:1 in mechanical need and cost, except we give them flash protection for free. They have very similar effects in how they influence combat and flashing and slipping are just as easy to inflict. I know analogy isn’t an argument, but damn the usecases align well so I thought it worth mentioning.
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in ss13 (tgstation/goonstation) nukies round-start with agent ID cards. mainly because copying access is a invaluable part of the setup. if you want to stealth infiltrate you need the full chameleon getup (or just break into maints and try to steal a uniform from there)
Honestly agent ID is probably logical.
The ONLY thing this changes is that you don’t have to steal and carry a bunch of IDs. It doesn’t give you any sort of “free access”. It just frees a minimal amount of inventory.
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PR Link if you feel like you wanna discuss it there.
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I was honestly completely sure that no slips would be 1 and id would be 2 with a big margin. Thats a suprise.
Also E sword is right behind them? like how
Because E-sword is an incredibly good and versatile melee option, and if you have reinforcements it’s not uncommon to buy them an esword as their only weapon, which boosts the number of purchases. (you’re not gonna give a monkey noslips or agent ID)
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What artistic roomba said was honestly pretty good.
It’s probably fine to give Syndicate IDs the copying ability, that way the Agent ID’s purpose of stealth/chameleon is still an attractive option for stealthops.
Nukies should probably all get magboots roundstart as they fit them thematically and prevent a lot of nukie noobtraps while still having downsides.
Bloodreds and blood-red boys, duh!
Helps with newkies forgetting their jetpack as they have one on their boots.
Magboots slowdown makes noslips (no slowdown) still a viable option.
And they said that’s got more maint approval than just their own.
Agent ID is #1 most likely because
- Lone Op spawns with Bloodred Mags in the suit locker and those purchase stats include Lone Ops. Check the number of cats lol.
- Agent spawns with Bloodred Mags so that’s 5/5 Agent IDs vs 4/5 No-Slips some rounds.
- Some Nukies actually buy Bloodred Mags to use for the utility.
That being said, I’m surprised people like giving Nukies the ID so much more than the No-Slips. No-Slips seem so much more necessary for combat to me than ID, and they also function for stealth too.
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I think I’ll end up making a new PR that replaces the PDA & ID that Nukies spawn with. Their new ID would inherit the access copier tag but not the chameleon tag.
The PDA would be different just so I can have them spawn with the ID correctly changed. Syndie refugees also spawn with Syndie PDA but I don’t think they necessarily need the ID copier.
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I dont have Nukies enabled but I would say, if they was to give you the ‘always buy’ items for free they would also reduce your overall funds by the ammoun the ‘always buy’ items are worth. So… I think its better to leave it open so you can not buy those items if you desire.
I’m not a big fan of this reduce funds for balance idea that seems prevalent. Every single update, the crew gets some new thing that makes them more efficient and nobody cares then, so why does it matter here?
I mean.. you cant expect to get the items for free. They had a cost before so.. it’ll either be reduce the ammount you start with but you also always get these items/effects or alteratively have the points to spend even if your gonna get them 99% of the time anyway.
I basically already have a working PR for the Nukie ID copy ability but I’m working with someone to get some new sprites before I push it. 
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