LordEclipse - Frog6645: Staff Complaint

Subject: LordEclipse

Policies or Expectations Violated: Unwarranted ahelp, apparent misunderstanding of what an antagonist and free agent is?

Do you want this complaint to be made public after it is processed: Yes

Detailed Summary and My Thoughts: I got a ghost role as a skeleton on an evac pod, went around and raided a few salvage derelicts, then stole from salv. Pretty normal skeleton behavior. I get my salv charges and start tossing tiles at the shocked grilles on the outside of the armory so I don’t get shocked, and then I get an ahelp saying “No.” with no elaboration and then the grille is repaired. I ask for a bit more elaboration and they say the same stuff generally, but at least as a sentence. They then proceed to say “Free Agents aren’t antags.” which is… wrong. Being able to act as either one means that you can do either one, not that you have to twiddle your thumbs and wait for something to happen and then join an antag as “They can side with antags or crew at will” would insinuate.

Now, I understand the golden rule and conceded that I would not raid the armory based on the sole reason that an admin did not want me to, but still felt like pleading my case because the cook was perfect. They proceed to say something that confuses me a ton. “Breaching armory would be considered major sabotage”. Okay, I’m going to list off things that are considered major sabotage and you tell me where I lose you. Setting a ball of pure energy or a gravitational singularity loose. Blowing up the AME, the most consistent form of power for the station. Plasmaflooding and turning the station into a hellish cesspool of fire. Blowing into the armory and taking the guns…

I can see why taking the armory guns is pretty disruptive, but the issue is, the armory is easy to replace. You can go to cargo and get guns, you can make guns at the secfab, science can research weapons and shields for you. I argue that the main difference between raiding the armory and say, loosing the singulo, is that one kills everybody everywhere and is impossible to fix; the other one just takes guns from a secure room.

Eclipse attempts to say why bombing the armory would be major destruction, but they specifically use something that relies on other factors to happen to make it bad. The ahelp will be at the end of this message, and if it is not, please get back to me on that. So Eclipse, “picture this”, this singularity is loosed. That’s going to kill a lot of people. Raiding the armory doesn’t cause any direct harm to the survival of the crew, so I would hesitate to call it essential to the station and its survival.

To make matters worse, “Major Sabotage” isn’t outlined at all in the rules. That makes major sabotage based on whatever admin is on, and clearly that isn’t exactly perfect. To further complain about the content and conduct of the ahelp, I kept trying to disengage from the ahelp to play the freakin’ game. The first time I may have not been direct, the second time I was PRETTY clear, and then the last time Eclipse got the hint whenever I very bluntly said I just want to play.

In conclusion, I feel that Eclipse ahelped me for a completely superfluous reason, fails to comprehend what a free agent is, something very clearly outlined in the rules (Certain roles are free to choose if they want to behave as an antagonist or as a non-antagonist, and may change their mind whenever they’d like. You are only free agent if the game clearly and explicitly tells you that you are a free agent.), abused something poorly defined to stop my cook >:( and then kept ahelping me when I basically said “yessir, I understand”. I’m not only writing this as a mald, but also because skeleton (and free agents as a whole) STILL need rules their roles expanded upon. I’ve seen DOZENS of skeletons singuloose even after the “free antag” term was added and have heard nothing about it being against the rules.

Hello sorry for getting to you this late, after the previous headmin team left there was a bit of chaos.

The complaint will now be processed.

The complaint will be processed by a panel of 3 uninvolved admins:

@samuka - Presiding
@dave36464736
@Reisama

The reviewing admins have found the following:

  1. The player’s actions did not violate our rules. Their actions were clearly in line with expectations for Free Agents. Eclipse appears to have seen it in the same way, as he implicitly invoked rule 1.1(Admins have final say) and did not issue an official warning.
  2. When asked about his reasoning, eclipse reasoned that at the time it was a very frequent occurrence that skeletons would break into the armory, steal all of the guns, and then proceed to massacre security. In essence they would be conducting themselves in a way that would be against the rules for normal antagonists(Rule 2.9). As such eclipse believed it was appropriate to stop the skeleton’s actions even if they alone were not against the rules.
  3. The reviewing admins find that this intervention was unnecessary. Eclipse should’ve either ahelped with instructions to not massacre security or otherwise commit mass murder or sabotage or to have waited for problematic behavior to occur before ahelping.
  4. Due to 1, 2, and 3 Eclipse breached Admin Policy 2.6 Do not interfere unless you are needed.
  5. It should be noted that for rule skirting the Admin Policy 2.8 Use notes as consideration for punishment, and give notes frequently mandates that admins leave a note on a player. This point is moot due to finding 4 however it will be taken into account.
  6. The reviewing admins find issue with how Eclipse conducted himself in the ahelp. While his behavior is not in violation of admin policy, ahelps should generally only go on for as long as needed. Eclipse continued the ahelp for a quite a bit longer after the player complied and understood the judgement.

Following these findings the following action will be taken:

  1. The complaint is accepted.
  2. Eclipse will be reminded of Admin Policy 2.6.
  3. Eclipse will be notified of the issues in his conduct with this interaction, including his behavior on the ahelp.

As the breaches here are relatively minor, and the fact that an official warning or other punishment wasn’t issued against the player no other action is necessary.

Added complaint-accepted and removed complaint-pending