How do we feel about this, any potential issues etc. This is a change with a fairly broad potential reach so there is bound to be stuff that is relevant but hasn’t been discussed yet.
I noticed that the diamond-tipped mining drill still goes through a regular wall or secure crate in ~9 seconds, even faster than a fireaxe. Is that intentional, or does that also need to be adjusted? I think being able to demolish structures better is about the only point of the diamond tipped drill, though?
Diamond-tipped mining drill seems fine in my opinion. Requires a decent amount of collaboration and effort between Science and Salvage if they want to bust down crates or walls.
Only thing to watch out for would be adversely effecting savlage and antag looting. as long as you can still pickaxe//mining Drill past doors I think it’ll be fine.
Also relevant that we did something like this before, but then it was rolled back
I don’t know the wider context there, I was not a maint at the time. @Emisse do you have any insight about this?
Probably gonna shift these values a bit lower once the salvage weapon rebalancing is done just because they are the main problem areas that lead to a lot of the high numbers.
I think this PR is generally good to playtest and goes in the right direction.
I guess I agree, BUT I am very curious why we did not keep it the last time. It feels very relevant. But the PR doesn’t offer much detail
I can’t seem to find any discussion on the rollback PR. At least not on Discord.
The only downside of this that I can think of is that it would make genpop/perma escapes through the walls impossible, and in turn that’d lead to people just replacing the “intended” escape routes with R walls.
I agree with the idea of the PR that certain things could benefit from a higher threshold (though doors are stupid tanky, maybe we need to take a look at that). I think the values proposed seem significantly high to the point where they risk negating tools made for structural damage. Once the adjustments are made I will be happy to give it a go and test it.
Would be useful to get a comparison before/after when it comes to the time it takes to break things with certain weapons. E.g. the impact it has on e-swords.
This can be further tweaked to do something like reducing the reinforced metallic resistance to heat damage. Put it at a value somewhere that the crates and walls can’t be broken with a laser. Or go the other route and make eswords do much more damage to buildings.
Personally after sitting on this PR for a bit, I think it needs to be done with a broader scope and finer adjustment.
Structural thresholds are currently wack right now with a lot of structures (such as reinforced glass) having a base structural threshold of 10 minimum, requiring a power creep of structural damage for any structural damage value to be meaningful.
The changes in the PR don’t really address this and add some oddities (like the drill now breaking asteroid rocks in 1 hit making a diamond tipped drill really only good for breaking walls and such).
I think overall structural damage on all weapons needs to be lowered and the range of structural damage thresholds needs to be compressed down. The baseball bat shouldn’t be doing 15 structural but it has to if it wants to be effective against reinforced glass.
The obscenely high threshold creep is going to result in more structural damage creep is my opinion. With this PR energy swords wont be able to break through armored crates which doesn’t make sense and will have big balance implications for Traitors and Nukies either resulting in a revert or more structural damage power creep.