in some rounds you get like 10 syndicates and 5 security or like full security team totalling in 8 and you get like 8 to 12 syndies on top of mid-late game ghost role antags, its just tiring if you playing sec when this happens, it would be nice if there was high cap or somethink to prevent that (keep in mind this issue is rather rare apperance)
Antags roll station because they can’t roll antag as sec, therefore there is no sec.
There is no sec, so all 12 syndicate agents have free reign to murderbone and free armory access cuz cap is alone.
People play sec cuz last round was murderbone.
There is now a HoS and a Detective.
Sec gets rolled.
There is now no sec.
Yes, there are like 12 in total. But they are not all acting togheter or at the same time. Antags are balanced around their secrecy and covertnes. And since syndies are solo antags, it isn’t like it is free to just join an ongoing rampage SHOULD they witness it to begin with.
Sec is also not going to be able to stop ALL antags, the game would not be very fun if sec alone could deal with everything.
The REAL issue imo are the threats that not even sec can actually deal with summed with the rest.
You get 8 syndicate spawns, then a ninja, then a lone op, then a wizard, then zombies…
Then engi fails to reconnect a single HV cable and the singularity looses, med is out of power so everyone just dies and command cannot even call the shuttle…
I have seen plenty of times get to a point where syndie agents are literally running sec and/or command and valid hunting other station ending antags because sec was wiped like 20 minutes ago and they know they have no chance to survive otherwise. Then crew is also forced to just ally with antags because there is no other sensible choice.
And i mean, i like the idea, but it happens way too often.
The severity of round ending antags and situations should be tuned down tbh. It is fun to coast along a disaster, it is not fun to have a single situation force an evac call.
Atm most rounds feel like a TDM rather than the actual RP focus the game claims to have.
example 1 from one of the rounds i played
- there is 9 antags in total 2 are thiefs (5 sec in total 1 det, 1 officer 1 HOS and 2 cadets)
- 3 of 6 dedices to go loud for their kill objectives
- 1 of 3 have DADG so security trying to stop his killing spree on top of other 3
- there is loneop amogus
- there vent critters
- non-antag crew members trying to validhunt making sec s job 10 times harder
- captain dedices its good idea to directly engage loud syndies himself instead of just supporting sec
- atmos never properly repaired medical so air is out now (med got bombed 3 times because kill objectives)
- HOS dediced its good idea to chase syndie with jetpack to space alone without any jetpack
- power is out because engineers too busy validhunting instead of repairing
- science blows up their anomalies because no power to use APE
- half of the station dead or about to die
- evac arrives
- evac bombing
- clown dies “good ending”
This is honestly the better round. Because people are at least trying. Half the rounds i play go like this:
- Atmos is tuning out the apocalypse as they play with gases. They do not even know the alarm monitor exist and people have been dying in the halls for 20 minutes already.
- Half of sec is ignoring coms entirely because they are in med (if the last encounter did not gib them) or chasing a tider (and the warden has been missing from sec for 30 minutes already so no one is setting up timers or marking people as wanted). With some luck sec has not abused their power and none of them are being ahelped/banned nor there are people lubing the halls in protest.
- Power was never properly set up. Engi tought that the AME and solars would last enough for TEG (nobody set up TEG). And because a single department slacked, everyone has to play station outage 14.
- The singulo/tesla was set up. But somehow is already coming loose (or it may just be a science artifact that generated one) so evac is already called.
- Science is either ignoring the ninja or dying to it, if an antag has not taken over yet. Either way science is 99% abandoning their role to survive, roam around or just cryo.
- Half of service already cryod because the round is unplayable. (Except clown and mime who are messing with sec or just tiding)
- If no one has targeted chem, they will be hunkering down and churning chems, while the rest of med treats the overwhelming wounded, at least a third of them go perma as med becomes unoperable.
- Salvage either has spent over 30 minutes preparing to do something, with some luck they have started mining and will be back when the shift is nearly over. If the station is in trouble, they’ll likely won’t even bother to come back and just steal from ATS instead.
There are so many issues with departments not doing their job, their roles being made unplayable within minutes of starting a round or worse. Rounds are hard enough to work out without antags, we do not need 3 round ending antags at the same time.
i feel like all the issues are all “once in a blue moon” scenarios. I have yet to (aside from lowpop (sub 40 players) servers) had any major issues of a round being unplayable.
I definitely feel like it’s an unpleasant 50/50 if the shift goes to complete crud of ‘we’re no longer asking. You are leaving’. The most recent spree has been very engineering focused problems snowballing into everything else getting unmanageable, or Survival Spells are getting cast, or nukies. I feel like rounds where there’s some nice RP are getting rarer even over the month I’ve been playing, and no small part of it feels like the antag spam in the event people actually do their jobs.
Toning it down some so that not every one needs to unite as frontline militia would be nice, where security can still function as the main battle team, maybe with service as supporting half combatants, but most departments can stay locked in their main role while still contributing to the effort.
I want to play in your rounds then lol.
But you really do not need a all at once.
- Nukies alone can render a round unplayable. Sabotage a singulo (engi cannot stop nukies alone), just use a china lake in general, etc. ALL ops try in some shape or form to completely disable departments one by one. .
- Wizard is several times worse by itself. If it approaches engi you may as well start calling evac because it is going to rod all power production and the singulo cage. If it even WALKS near you it can instagib you by clicking on you. And has an infinite china lake in the form of a fireball. Worst part they are ENCOURAGED to murder bone. If nukies warrant arming up, a wizard warrants calling evac immediately.
- Ninja is an exceedingly common mid round antag. That can only be stopped if they slip up and make a mistake. (you aren’t catching an antag with strong meelee plus reflect, that teleports, hacks doors and becomes invisible.). And whose main target is science, a department that is by no means equipped to deal with it and that sec has no access to. The only literal counterplay (IF YOU SEE IT beforehand) is to post a seccie at the server room and make them wait there bored out of their gourd. Where the ninja is still gonna solo them unless they are new.
I just don’t see the value in antags that have no counterplay. Just so the one that rolled it can mess EVERYONE’s round?
on points 1 and 2. most servers have a excessive ddestruction clause that prevents intentionl singu/tesla (or if applicable Supermatter)looses. so that would result in nukies and wizard all getting banned either antag or rom the entire server.
on point 3. ninja has 3-4 targets. they also gotta hack a criminal records computer (security), and the comms console (bridge or captains room). and place a bomb… somewhere.
i also forget to mention here earlier, genuenly (speaking for myself) people trying to play hero and block sec from doing their jobs, in the end getting both killed what makes me want to quit sec forever, 2 player controlled spooder normally easy to take down unless you have one “the guy” trying to punch them and getting you cornered and both of you killed becuase you can t shoot while they dancing around
How is the situation on Salamander with that?
i mainly play on salamander and wrote stuff based on salamander
Excessive PAST their objective.
Some of their objectives include destroying the whole station.
See the problem?
- Nukies are allowed to destroy any department that may aid in stopping them (so all the departments).
- Wizards are allowed to do anything as long as it is flashy. So they have no limits either.
- Ninja can kill anyone that opposes them, so again. Die to ninja or turn into passenger+.
And i’m not even gonna mention zombies.
Honestly? Just shoot anyway even with the risk or let them fight it until they fall.
You aren’t expected to be the perfect robocop. Some stuff is outside your control and is not your fault.
nukies are not to intentionally cause the singulo to loose cause their mass destruction must be the nuke. what if the cpatain or the nuke gets eaten by the singulo. and your armor has piss poor rad resistso it is a bad idea.
and same for the wizard. cant exactly demonstrate your powers when you are eaten by the singulo or dying of rad dammage.
ninja’s are supposed to have honor and not murderbone (iirc a design doc is floating around to rework the ninja to be more stealth and less murderboney)
and zombies are instructed to not destroy computers or electronics unless it is DIRECTLY in the way of them getting to a brain.
If this is against the rules i have not seen it punished as of yet.
Even the latest amendments to wizard rules are pushing it to be more antagonistic if anything.
So no, rules as (apparently) intended don’t stop them from doing either.
Not that it even matters, as both nukies and wizards can render departments useless without it, making a singulo just salt on the wound at best.
And a ninja is obviously very well equipped to fight civilians, and a scientist is obviously not gonna want to get all their progress deleted. At least there is a design doc on the way for that.
Zombies are so unstoppable as a whole that they don’t even need sabotage. They grow exponentially and round remove on contact.