Detailed Summary: This admin had wavebanned people mid round without watching the round or a replay. To be clear I wasn’t banned, but after an eventful round that included a coup against security (I was a Sec Cadet), which happened, because HoS was self antagging, this admin has banned a lot of people that didn’t even know what was going on, for example a botanist on the other side of the station (second ban after unban). I’ve provided a screenshot, in which they say that they don’t care what happened and just gonna ban everyone involved.
Sorry this hasn’t been handled faster, I’ve been busy. It’s unlikely I’ll be able to give this the amount of attention I typically do for a complaint, partially due to how many players were impacted and partially due to a lack of available time. I had an uninvolved admin review the situation that lead to the bans and share their opinions on if each was valid.
Some actions have already been taken, specifically attempting to ensure related ban appeals are being handled correctly. My current intention is to apply actions to the bans based on the opinions of the uninvolved admin, to identify related ban appeals and affected players here, and then to work from there to attempt to determine if more actions are necessary, and what they are. Since the investigation into this complaint will likely not have been as thorough as typical, once it is closed and published anyone else will be allowed to submit another complaint to present any information that was missed or to request investigation into an uninvestigated aspect, regardless of if this complaint is accepted or rejected.
The following information related to the complaint is being released, with more to follow in the future:
The relevant round ID appears to be Lizard 35764. The replay for that round is available at: https://cdn.centcomm.spacestation14.com/replays/lizard/2023/10/16/lizard-2023_10_16-14_46-round_35746.zip
There appear to be 12 separate ahelp exchanges during the round, none appear to be from the complainant. All but 1 appear to have been at least partially related. 1 ahelp during the next round may have also been related.
Sorry, the round number given in my last comment is wrong. The correct round number is 35764. The replay link is the correct link.
Of the bans that were still active, there were 2 where the uninvolved admin felt a game ban of any length should not have been placed. I have removed those bans without requiring an appeal.
On 10/21/2023 at 9:42 PM, Chief_Engineer said:
Sorry, the round number given in my last comment is wrong. The correct round number is 35764. The replay link is the correct link.
I realized I just posted the same round number here… the correct one is 35746
The following are all of the logged OOC messages from mushroomLavdender from the round, they were each presented by the complainant:
- OOC from mushroomLavender: I just hopped on after 17 different ahelps. I am going to be handing out permanent bans for everyone involved as I am log diving.
- OOC from mushroomLavender: Everyone that just killed another player in the round, you will be getting appealbanned for mob-mentality. I don’t care.
- OOC from mushroomLavender: Again, if you’ve participated in this to a degree you round-removed other players, you are being appeal banned. I have zero exceptions.
The following are all logged dead chat messages from mushroomLavender from the round:
- Dead chat from mushroomLavender: good fucking god. That other warden wouldn’t crowbar the armory doors and was busy looting HOS.
- Dead chat from mushroomLavender: what happened?
- Admin dead chat from mushroomLavender: It’s not even revs.
- Admin dead chat from mushroomLavender: What the FUCK happened?
- Admin dead chat from mushroomLavender: Doesn’t matter. Looks like I’m banning a ton of people.
- Admin dead chat from mushroomLavender: Give me the name of the captain.
- Admin dead chat from mushroomLavender: I am just going to hand out appeal bans cause this is *awful*
- Admin dead chat from mushroomLavender: Captain was banned.
- Admin dead chat from mushroomLavender: If you have names of players who were involved, ahelp immediately.
- Admin dead chat from mushroomLavender: 7 admins are now on.
- Admin dead chat from mushroomLavender: damn.
- Admin dead chat from mushroomLavender: There have been 12.
- Admin dead chat from mushroomLavender: There are several admins on investigating
- Admin dead chat from mushroomLavender: AHELP if you have names of players who i-
- Admin dead chat from mushroomLavender: huh.
- Admin dead chat from mushroomLavender: LOL
- Admin dead chat from mushroomLavender: I can’t believe they just.
- Admin dead chat from mushroomLavender: Syndi-bombed.
- Admin dead chat from mushroomLavender: That was an antag.
- Admin dead chat from mushroomLavender: It was a syndicate round.
- Admin dead chat from mushroomLavender: Not revs.
None of these were sorted by the query. They appear to be sorted in chronological order from oldest at the top to newest at the bottom, but it’s possible that some messages are out of order. It is possible that a file with more complete and ordered logs will be released, but I’d need to figure out how to handle other player names and usernames that would likely appear.
19 bans appear to have been placed in connection to the incident by mushroomLavender, including bans placed to reduce earlier placed bans that appealed. 13 different players were banned with 4 players banned twice, 1 player was banned 3 times. 5 bans were temporary bans. A majority of the players banned multiple times appears to be due to the process used to reduce the length of their ban on appeal.
The following is the anonymized ban info:
- A 2023-10-16 18:03:56.149 +0000
- B 2023-10-16 18:01:47.946 +0000 2023-10-19 18:01:47.946 +0000
- C 2023-10-16 17:57:27.586 +0000 2023-10-19 17:57:27.586 +0000
- D 2023-10-16 17:21:25.292 +0000
- E 2023-10-16 16:55:46.861 +0000
- F 2023-10-16 16:55:19.691 +0000
- B 2023-10-16 16:54:43.693 +0000
- G 2023-10-16 16:47:36.759 +0000
- D 2023-10-16 16:47:13.759 +0000
- H 2023-10-16 16:46:45.359 +0000
- A 2023-10-16 16:24:18.780 +0000
- I 2023-10-16 16:22:32.651 +0000
- J 2023-10-16 16:18:22.712 +0000
- K 2023-10-16 16:17:05.749 +0000 2023-10-30 16:17:05.681 +0000
- E 2023-10-16 16:15:20.083 +0000
- K 2023-10-16 16:15:12.618 +0000 2023-10-23 19:44:37.000 +0000
- D 2023-10-16 16:13:15.951 +0000 2023-10-19 17:13:15.000 +0000
- C 2023-10-16 16:13:01.381 +0000
- L 2023-10-16 16:12:52.328 +0000
The format is player, ban time, ban expiration time. Bans with no expiration indicate an indefinite ban. This includes bans that were removed, but does not indicate which bans were removed or when. Players were replaced with unique letters.
Each of the following paragraphs is a summary of each ahelp from the round:
The ahelp begins in the lobby with an admin thanking the player in relation to an ahelp from the earlier round. During the round the player asks if any additional info is needed from them. mushroomLavender responds by saying “All namse and your side.” The player sends multiple messages explaining their perspective of the events, then appears to ask if it is fine before saying they can try to answer more questions.
With no admins adminned, a player asks “Is this admeme?”
With no admins adminned, a player reports another for using slurs. The player then asks if admins can “freeze the round and ban all these fuckers in sec?” While someone is adminned, they explain what is happening. mushroomLavender asksk for the names of who killed them. The player gives two names and says the whole cargo team took over sec and killed everyone, then says they want to get off the game and gives their discord username in case admins have more questions. Another admin responds, saying they can go.
With no admins adminned, a player asks “can heads go ona killing spree against the crew sho is breaking into bridge and attacking and stuff”
With no admins adminned, a player ahelps about a bug unrelated to the coup
With no admins adminned, a player ahelps “looks like the entirety of cargo/sec is insane. No revolutionaries, multiple people in cargo killing security”
While someone is adminned, a player ahelps “There looks like massive self-antag going on where the crew just killed all of Sec for no reason.”
While someone is adminned, a player ahelps “I might have caused that with the comms comsole spam, am I fine?”
mushroomLavender ahelps the captain to inform them that they’ve been role banned from all command roles.
mushroomLavender ahelps a player, asking them if they were involved in attacking other crew. The player says “Only security” “Like they said on the PA”
mushroomLavender ahelps a player, asking if they attacked security. The player responds with “No”
Two other admins ahelp a player asking why they were inciting a revolt over comms, and why they attacked a security officer. The player says they were following orders from the QM. The admins warned the player to not take orders from others that go against the rules and the player apologized.
There appear to be two related ahelps after the round. Neither was interacted with by mushroomLavender.
1 player was role banned in relation to the incident. They were indefinitely banned from 14 roles, which appear to be all of command and security.
After watching the replay and focusing on the captain till the moment he got banned, I haven’t noticed him doing anything bad really. The only thing he did was make a mess at bridge and host a command only party, which I don’t think is ban worthy.
HoS and HoP have decided to arrest Captain for no clear reason and demote him. Captain was resisting this unlawful arrest using his taser, which only slowed the HoS down, then he resorted to gun, all while trying to just run away.
HoS and a part of sec have decided to do a military coup, as you can see on the screenshots.
There were 2 arrest attempts on the Captain.
At first Captain was running away shooting his taser and the security were chasing him with batons. When the taser has ran out and Captain was close to collapsing he used his gun, while still trying to just run away. HoS pulled out his gun, started shooting at the captain and chased the Captain to his room.
After a while Captain went out of his room to look around. He met QM. After this Captain went to bridge and got arrested. He yelled for help on the common radio.
HoS undressed Captain and wanted HoP to take his role, HoP refused as they hadn’t got permission from CC.
Some secoff has freed the Captain, RD and CMO were trying to get evac.
At this point the heads should’ve just reported the HoS for self-antag, but QM decided to order guns and fight the sec to help Captain.
The biggest problem imo is that mushroomLavender had started banning people without investigating the round and, I’m assuming, just went with the names that the HoS provided, like the Captain for example who has done nothing wrong and had been chased and shot at most of the round.
As you can see on the screenshot, HoS just lied in deadchat, his only argument was that Cap was “crazy” and “stupid”.
In deadchat you can see various crewmembers who were talking about the security being the culprit and that cargo were just retaliating against the security rebellion.
In summary:
mushroomLavender has banned people based on untrue information from the people who derailed the round to begin with.
They didn’t put much thought into it just banned left and right as I saw on the forum.
I ask for the Captain to get unbanned and HoS and sec to get banned for self-antaging.
Thank you for the replies and for your time.
In my 3rd post, the captain’s game ban was one of the 2 bans I lifted based on the review of the uninvolved admin. However, that admin did find that a role ban was justified, so the role bans placed on them haven’t been impacted by this complaint yet.
I’ll see if I can get the same uninvolved admin to review the HOS’ perspective, but unfortunately it may be too late for anything more than a message note. Staff complaint threads won’t typically include details of negative actions applied to non-staff as a result of the complaint, so while I’ll try to remember to include an update about the situation with the HOS, it’ll likely just say that it was handled rather than specifying if any action was taken, or describing what action was taken.
I’m currently seeking additional actions in relation to this complaint, and still intend to post additional relevant information and evidence.
Thank you for the time you’ve put into this complaint so far. To try to make my posts easier for me to reference, I’ll try to include numbers from now on. This is my 8th post on this thread.
Sorry this is taking so long, the people I need to work with for this seem to currently be busy with irl stuff or other issues so I’m not sure when this will be concluded. I’m still pursuing the same actions I referred to in my last post. This is my 9th post on this thread.
Sorry for how long this has been taking to handle. All the game bans and role bans I was able to find related to this have been removed from the database. The players are no longer banned and no record of the bans should appear as part of the player’s history in-game to game admins.
This is my 10th post on this thread.
Thank you for your work
Thank you for your complaint, it has been accepted. This complaint is evaluated under policy at the time the complaint was made: Admin Policy Banning Policy
This is my 11th post on this complaint.
Personal Notes
I’m very sorry for how long it took to resolve this complaint. As you may be able to imagine, it was much more complex and difficult to handle than complaints typically are. In addition, mushroom’s inactivity deprioritized the complaint so that other issues, including some other complaints, could be handled.
I also apologize if anything here is confusing, or if there are any unnoticed mistakes. Multiple people will have reviewed this by the time it is posted, but there is a lot of information so it is possible that some of it was not presented as well as it could have been, or that some issue went unnoticed.
The investigation process of this complaint was extremely long. There are a significant amount of messages from various people, including mushroom, and it would not be reasonable to include everything from that here. There will be things that don’t appear in the findings, including claims made by mushroom that could be considered related to the complaint. For something to not appear, it will have to have gone forgotten or missed by everyone who reviewed this closing, or everyone who reviewed it will have to have come to the conclusion that it is not relevant enough to the complaint to include. As is typical with complaints, the subject, mushroomLavender, will have been given the opportunity to review this closing, and while they will not be required to agree with the conclusions made here, they will have the opportunity to point out inaccuracies, oversights, or omissions.
Executive Summary
During Lizard round 35746, mushroomLavender violated several long standing admin policies by indefinitely banning 13 players in relation to what appeared to be a riot or revolution, after having been themselves killed by participating players. Banned players included not just ones who mushroomLavender claimed participated in the riot, but also ones which mushroomLavender claimed were partly responsible for it, like the captain.
mushroomLavender placed many of these bans and took significant investigative steps related to them even after other game admins joined the server for the purpose of addressing the situation. Despite being aware of the presence of these admins, mushroomLavender did not defer to them to handle the situation and did not significantly coordinate with those admins.
When contacted about the bans and the fact that mushroomLavender was unilaterally handling appeals of the bans, mushroomLavender’s responses were not satisfactory, violated admin policy, and impeded investigation. Investigation by an uninvolved admin determined that at least some bans were not justifiable.
In the time since those bans were placed, several actions were taken to mitigate the negative impacts of mushroomLavender’s actions. These actions and others resulting from this complaint are detailed below in the Resulting Actions section.
Findings
- mushroomLavender was playing in Lizard 35746 as a warden before being killed by players who were taking actions that appeared to be part of a riot or revolution.
- A total of 7 players joined the round as a warden, including mushroomLavender.
- Some details about bans placed by mushroomLavender in connection to this incident are available in my 5th post on this thread.
- Three different players appear to have logs attacking mushroomLavender’s character, all three were banned by mushroomLavender with the ban reason indicating participation in a coup.
- One of the players was banned indefinitely, with the ban being reduced to a temporary ban by mushroomLavender on appeal without a vote or discussion.
- Two of the players were banned indefinitely, with the bans being modified or lifted by other members of the admin team.
- The placing of these bans violated admin policy 2.1 “Do not ever process a case you are/were a part of”.
- In addition to the bans referenced in finding 3, multiple other players were banned with the ban reasons indicating participation in a coup.
- The placing of these bans violated admin policy 2.1 “Do not ever process a case you are/were a part of”.
- In addition to the bans referenced in finding 3 and 4, the captain was temporarily game banned and indefinitely role banned. The information in my 7th post on this thread is related to the role bans placed on the captain.
- The reason provided for the captain’s game ban was “Ensured the tension was so poor between command and crew that several players went far enough to straight up start slaughtering security and command due to your extremely poor leadership and performance. Your role as Captain had completely derailed the players in terms of frustration.”
- The reason provided for the captain’s role bans was “After abusing the crew, it got so bad that the QM and several crew members violently couped the captain- killing several security.”
- The placing of the bans on the captain violated admin policy 2.1 “Do not ever process a case you are/were a part of”.
- During the round, mushroomLavender made a request for help in an admin channel on Discord. Multiple admins logged in to help prior to many of the bans being placed and prior to the round ending.
- Two of the admins who logged in to help were identified and contacted for information. Due to mushroomLavender’s response to the complaint, no other admins were identified.
- Both contacted admins indicated that mushroomLavender did not coordinate with them to ensure the bans mushroomLavender was placing were appropriate. Their accounts give the impression that there was little coordination between mushroomLavender and the other admins during the bans.
- One of the admins indicated that they felt their role was to ensure nothing was missed, rather than to do any sort of auditing.
- The ahelp described in the second to last paragraph of my 6th post on this thread, where two admins give a player a warning, supports the idea that mushroomLavender did not coordinate with the admins, as mushroomLavender later banned that player for what the two admins had decided to warn them for.
- A review of the replay began only after uninvolved admins were online, and mushroomLavender continued handling the situation and placing bans as a result of the replay review.
- During part of the complaint investigation, mushroomLavender indicated that they were aware other admins were in-game to handle the situation when the bans were placed.
- Though not within policy, the processing of the appeals by mushroomLavender will not be addressed as a policy violation because it is so insignificant compared to the surrounding details that it would not affect the outcome of this complaint.
- mushroomLavender claimed that a long standing precedent which allowed banning admins to handle their own appeals had been grandfathered in to the system at the time of the incident.
- Over 11 months prior to the incident, the head game admin at the time updated written admin policy to say that when processing appeals, you (admins) should “[n]ot process appeals that are your bans”. The update included multiple additions related to processing appeals. In the message announcing the update, they indicated that the changes were “pretty much all stuff we were already doing” and that the purpose was just to include them in policy.
- As early as September 2022, there is a message from a game admin indicating that Wizard’s Den practice was that game admins not process their own appeals.
- mushroomLavender’s response to this complaint delayed the complaint and prevented details from being investigated or confirmed.
- It is reasonably foreseeable that the response would have caused delays and impeded investigation and so drawing an adverse inference is reasonable where information is missing, incomplete, or inaccurate.
- The response violated admin policy 1.1 “Administrators will be held responsible for their actions.”
- The response violated admin policy 1.2 “Be professional, polite and welcoming.”
- In total, mushroomLavender placed bans affecting 13 players, each of which violated admin policy 2.1 “Do not ever process a case you are/were a part of”.
- In one instance, mushroomLavender explained that some bans were placed to get context from people involved, later saying that they thought this is what appeal (indefinite) bans were for.
- While there were bans that the player “may appeal this ban on the forums”, there was no reasonable indication in the ban reasons that the bans were placed to further an investigation.
- At least one player who had already been investigated was included in the bans. See finding 6.4.
- Prior to the introduction of message notes, which allow game admins to have a message displayed for a player the next time they log in, it was regular practice to indefinitely ban players to essentially allow an ahelp to be conducted through the appeal. I’m not aware of an instance where this was done to a player who was online, and therefore could have just been ahelped. Bans done for this purpose would typically include an instruction to appeal the ban, rather than simply saying that it could be appealed.
- A justification mushroomLavender provided for involving themselves in the situation as an admin after having been involved as a player was that there is a precedent allowing game admins to handle situations that they were involved in if no other admin is online and if the issue is severe or important.
- There have been instances where game admins re-adminned to handle a severe situation that they noticed while playing, not being directly involved with the case as a player, and while no other game admin was online. I am not aware of any situation where the admin was directly involved as a player and then chose to handle it as an admin when they were a part of the case, and mushroomLavender did not provide one.
- In most, if not all, situations where game admins re-adminned to handle a severe situation, the situation was so severe, unquestionable, and uncontroversial that an indefinite ban could be placed, that ban required no contact with the player to investigate, and no reasonable person could conclude that the ban was contrary to our banning practices.
- Admin policy 2.1 “Do not ever process a case you are/were a part of”. includes an exception that allows admins to get permission to handle a case they were involved in if no admins are online, but mushroomLavender neither sought nor received any such permission.
- mushroomLavender continued investigation, including starting the replay investigation, and placed multiple bans after other admins were online and able to handle the situation.
- Another justification mushroomLavender provided for involving themselves in the situation is that they had intended to join the round and AFK until something happened, arguing that this intent and the amount of time they spent in the round meant that they weren’t sufficiently involved for policy 2.1 to apply.
- Intent is not a factor in determining involvement.
- The time between joining a round and being killed is not a factor in regards to whether an admin would be considered involved in the situation as a player.
- mushroomLavender was involved sufficiently that the policy applied to all admin actions taken by mushroomLavender in this case. See findings 1, 3, and 5.1.
- mushroomLavender indicated that they attempt to avoid recognition in-game, saying that they don’t advertise their character names and have a specific one that they use for observing rounds. They also acknowledged that they’re unsure of how helpful that is in this case.
- This is in fact, not helpful in relation to policy 2.1.
- While game admins are not required to share their character names, even if they handle a situation which they were not involved in that occurred during a round they were playing in, attempting to hide or obscure that they were involved in a situation that they are handling is a violation of admin policy 1.1 “Administrators will be held responsible for their actions.”
- OOC messages provided in my 5th post on the complaint suggest that mushroomLavender was attempting to hide or obscure that they were involved in a situation that they were handling.
- In multiple instances, mushroomLavender references griefers, raiders in particular, using recent increased occurrences of them as a justification for the “harsh consistent response”.
- Around the time of the events, there had been an increase in raiders targeting Wizard’s Den servers. Raiders are people who join with the intention of disrupting a round to such a severe degree that they are almost always indefinitely banned. They have no intention of ever participating as a legitimate player, so their accounts do not have any substantial history on the servers that they raid.
- It is clear that multiple banned players were not raiders by their playtimes and roles alone.
- It is clear that mushroomLavender did not believe this to be a raid, based on finding 5.1.
- This seemingly contradicts the claims mushroomLavender made in finding 10.
- For a significant amount of time following this complaint, mushroom had been inactive in regards to in-game adminning.
- Sometime in the past several weeks or months, mushroomLavender began running in-game events and responding to ahelps. Details of this are only loosely relevant to this complaint, so significant detail won’t be included in subpoints.
- mushroomLavender was contacted by another head game admin about their low activity in admin tasks relative to the amount of events they were running, and a possible issue with one of the two ahelps they handled recently.
- mushroomLavender indicated that they do not want to be a game admin, and wanted to be “hands off with adminning as a whole.”
- mushroomLavender also seemed to say that they were not interested in doing anything that caused them to be affected by admin policies.
- The head game admin asked mushroomLavender to discontinue use of admin tools, including running events, answering ahelps, and taking admin actions like bans.
Resulting Actions
- Steps were taken to mitigate the impacts of finding 7, including the review of the bans by an uninvolved admin within a week of receiving the complaint, and the unbannings references in my 3rd post on this complaint.
- Due to findings 3.3, 4.1, 5.3, and 9, all placed bans were removed from the database at the time of my 10th post on this thread. All traces of the bans have not been erased, but they can no longer be found by using the standard methods to check ban histories, and none of the bans that were still active will prevent the players from joining.
- mushroomLavender was notified of resulting action 2 prior to it occurring.
- Actions that fit the categories of self antagging or incompetence in their role, broadly construed, taken by any player during Lizard 35746 may not be used against them in the future, nor can directly connected actions such as ban appeals or any of the ahelps in the next round on Lizard by those players. This amnesty does not extend to violations of any zero tolerance rules, including hate speech, sexual content, and ban evasion.
- mushroomLavender’s response to this complaint has been raised with higher staff within the project, but will be handled separately from this complaint.
- How these actions affect mushroomLavender’s position outside of the admin team will be raised and will be handled outside of this complaint.
- While it may be moot due to the subpoints of finding 16, mushroomLavender is prohibited by the headmin team from being a game admin. This prohibition includes the use of any in-game elevated permissions. It also includes acting as a game admin outside of the game in any way, including participation in appeals of game bans and role bans, except participation as an appellant.
- mushroomLavender was provided with a copy of this closing, and given the opportunity to identify inaccuracies or things they considered to be important missing details.
Added complaint-accepted, privacy-public and removed complaint-pending