OliverOtter - Games_Sweat_Shop

 - Subject: Oliver_Otter

 - Policies or Expectations Violated: 2.6, inappropriate response to situation,

 - Do you want this complaint to be made public after it is processed: Yes


Figure 1: Contextual video. Despite being a video this is important context.

But pictures alone a man cannot survive on, so here is a further explanation broken down into a few main points.

  1. There needs to be clear antag rules if players are going to get in trouble for doing things as antags. I’ve spoken with several people and a rules rewrite is commonly wanted. As of now, many of the rules players are punished for are quite simply not in the rules tab and must be found externally on the forum, even then there are rules players are punished for that cannot be found, see figure 1 for example.

  2. The rules for antags are extremely vague at best (traitor, revs) and nonexistent at worst (skeleton, zombies)

  3. Escalation in this situation was fine, my man John tried to round remove me (an antagonist) two times, the first of which he was spared and let go from after numerous attempts to de-escalated exclusively at my own peril.

  4. I have seen skeletons nuke the station before, I have seen them slaughter entire departments, I have seen admins say “based” in OOC after these actions, the skeleton wars either need laws or they don’t, being left in this limbo state is horrid for players.

  5. I would follow the rules if they were there and clear lmao, unfortunately, it seems like the rules completely depend on what admin is online at the time (the skeletal nuke incident is fine, gibbing an extremely hostile atmostech / validhunter is not.)

  6. For skeletons in particular, people should either be allowed to do anything to them and visa versa or not. My note makes it seem like it is alright for the crew to do as they will to skeletons but not the other way around.

  7. For skeletons in particular, the introduction to the rule should not say “wage sweet skeletal war” If skeletal war has been reduced to skeletal skirmishes.

  8. Both myself and everyone I talk to agree that I was not the aggressor/dick in this particular situation considering all that John did.

 - Round 47410 - This is more so a complaint about the general state of the rules than Oliver_Otter in particular, though I still think the note is unjustified

A possible solution would be letting me rewrite the rules to be more clear, I am more than willing to do it but was denied on the basis of “we are working on it.” However, that was months ago and no true rewrite has come as of yet.

All replays were broken as of yesterday, if there are any questions relating to what happened in 47410 feel free to reach out and I will answer honestly.

The round was Lizard 47410. The ahelp is provided below:

:outbox_tray: 00:53:16 OliverOtter: Hey, gibbign that atmos tech was a bit overkill
:inbox_tray: 00:53:48 Games_Sweat_Shop: When I spaned in he immidiately tried to kill and round remove me
:inbox_tray: 00:53:57 Games_Sweat_Shop: Then tried a second time after I descelated
:outbox_tray: 00:53:57 OliverOtter: they can do that.
:outbox_tray: 00:54:11 OliverOtter: you are a neutral antag
:inbox_tray: 00:54:28 Games_Sweat_Shop: Yeah, he tried to gib me, I tried to gib him, should I not in the future?
:outbox_tray: 00:54:36 OliverOtter: you shouldnt.
:inbox_tray: 00:55:14 Games_Sweat_Shop: Well I dont do it again in the future, my bad
:inbox_tray: 01:02:38 Games_Sweat_Shop: Brother is now angry in LOOC and threatening me with admins IC
:inbox_tray: 01:02:51 Games_Sweat_Shop: Not sure if thats ahelpable but I think it might be?
:outbox_tray: 01:04:38 OliverOtter: yeah ill deal with it.
:inbox_tray: 01:05:37 Games_Sweat_Shop: He additionally went thru the effort of trying to get the warden to kill me just now, Im sorry about this mess
:outbox_tray: 01:05:51 OliverOtter: Well you are valid anyways.

Added privacy-public

Sorry for the delay, complaints are currently backlogged. Thank you for the complaint, it has been accepted.


  1. By the conclusion of the complaint, and unrelated to it, OliverOtter retired from the admin team.
  2. Due to finding 1, the investigation was not completed and so the subject of the complaint cannot be considered at fault in the incident.
  3. The complainant did not violate the server rules by gibbing the atmospheric technician who had been attempting to kill them.
    1. The “Don’t be a dick” rule prohibits “needless” permanent round removals, and implies that severe conflicts may justify a permanent round removal.
    2. Current rules give antagonists significant leeway in regards to the “Don’t be a dick” rule.
    3. Closet skeletons are either antagonists, or it is unreasonable for a player playing the game as it was at the time of the incident, with the rules as they were at the time of the incident, to know that a skeleton is not an antagonist.
    4. The gibbed player instigated a severe conflict with the complainant which, at least with the leeway granted by the complainant being an antagonist, allowed the complainant to permanently round remove the gibbed player.
  4. Due to finding 3, the note placed on the complainant was inappropriate.

Resulting Actions

  1. Due to finding 4, the notes placed on the complainant during round 47410 were soft deleted. They will not appear to admins checking player notes in-game and should not be held against the complainant.

Added complaint-accepted and removed complaint-pending

Regarding your concerns about the rules, the admin team has been working on updating the rules for a while now. Unfortunately it’s a relatively tedious process to determine what direction the admin team wants to go for every aspect of the rules, write that in a way that’s clear to readers while also balancing length so that people are willing to read it.

The current state of the rewrite is at User:Chief Engineer/rule rewrite 2023 - Space Station 14 Wiki

If anyone would like to write their own proposed version somewhere, they are free to, but I can’t recommend it because it is a lot of work, there is no guarantee that it will be accepted, and even if it is accepted there is no guarantee that it won’t be significantly modified from the version that’s proposed.

I can’t offer any guarantees, but my expectation right now is that the rewrite will be complete within a month.

Thank you for the reply, I will submit a doc to attempt to help with the rules. You mentioned that notes were removed, being plural. Was there a secret note that was removed on top of the normal one?


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