Random Search on No Emergency Code at Shift Start

Rule Clarifications Questions
1

So, I was a Syndicate Agent and went into a maintenance hall to start setting up. A Sec Officer walked by and demanded to search me. We were only a few minutes into the shift and not at any emergency code.

I denied allowing him to search me several times on the bases of us not being at an emergency code and he would not let the issue go.

I was always under the impression this was against the rules. That the Officer either needs to see me do something illegal or we need to be at an emergency code for him to be able to search me. But, this might just be considered ‘good manners’ and not an official rule.

We argued the point (in character and then in LOOC) where I eventually suicided because it felt unfair to me that I should have to spend my entire shift in perma just because the Sec Officer random spot searched me at the start of the shift without an emergency code even being issued. He didn’t even charge me with anything. The very fact that I was in maintenance was the only thing he used as justification to search me.

I’d like clarification so that I know for sure next time. Thank you.

1 Like
2

29 minutes ago, EVIL_ED said:

So, I was a Syndicate Agent and went into a maintenance hall to start setting up. A Sec Officer walked by and demanded to search me. We were only a few minutes into the shift and not at any emergency code.

I denied allowing him to search me several times on the bases of us not being at an emergency code and he would not let the issue go.

I was always under the impression this was against the rules. That the Officer either needs to see me do something illegal or we need to be at an emergency code for him to be able to search me. But, this might just be considered ‘good manners’ and not an official rule.

We argued the point (in character and then in LOOC) where I eventually suicided because it felt unfair to me that I should have to spend my entire shift in perma just because the Sec Officer random spot searched me at the start of the shift without an emergency code even being issued. He didn’t even charge me with anything. The very fact that I was in maintenance was the only thing he used as justification to search me.

I’d like clarification so that I know for sure next time. Thank you.

If I’m correct or recall a certain message. If a Officer has a good reasonable suspicion to search you despite being on green, they can.

Just cause you were in maints, I don’t believe that was a very good reason. ahelping it or just taking it up with HoS maybe would’ve helped you in the situation.

If you were in maints maybe a lot, it probably would’ve been a nice reason. I’m not fully sure though.

3

21 hours ago, Quartermaster said:

If I’m correct or recall a certain message. If a Officer has a good reasonable suspicion to search you despite being on green, they can.

Just cause you were in maints, I don’t believe that was a very good reason. ahelping it or just taking it up with HoS maybe would’ve helped you in the situation.

If you were in maints maybe a lot, it probably would’ve been a nice reason. I’m not fully sure though.

Had just been there for a few minutes. I was changing from my Chemist cloths to Chameleon cloths.

What gets me is there were other things the Officer could have used as better justification to search.

“Why are you wearing black gloves as a Chemist?” ‘Thieving Gloves.’

“Why are you holding a backpack while wearing a backpack?” Still had my old Chem Backpack in my hands because I was still switching out.

Those both would have been far better grounds to search me on than “Why are you in maintenance?”

I was almost hoping he’d start using the other things as reasons why. But, throughout the entire debate, the only reason he ever gave me was the fact that I was in maintenance.

4

3 hours ago, EVIL_ED said:

Had just been there for a few minutes. I was changing from my Chemist cloths to Chameleon cloths.

What gets me is there were other things the Officer could have used as better justification to search.

“Why are you wearing black gloves as a Chemist?” ‘Thieving Gloves.’

“Why are you holding a backpack while wearing a backpack?” Still had my old Chem Backpack in my hands because I was still switching out.

Those both would have been far better grounds to search me on than “Why are you in maintenance?”

I was almost hoping he’d start using the other things as reasons why. But, throughout the entire debate, the only reason he ever gave me was the fact that I was in maintenance.

Pretty much an ahelp reason I think. If it’s not a good reason but they keep trying to go on, maybe do something on it.

Probably going to HoS woulda screwed you over more or Warden.

5

https://forum.spacestation14.com/index.php?/topic/2693-alert-levels-and-random-searches/&do=embed&comment=9826&embedComment=9826&embedDo=findComment#comment-9826

 

6

TL;DR from LoneSoldier’s redirect and a little more info sprinkled on top;

You CANNOT random search someone on green, or for “intuition/gut feeling,” or without an actual firm belief and reason to do such. You ALSO need a warrant from HoS/Warden AND, AND captain in order to do a search on green.

On blue, you can randomly search anyone you like. Technically you _can _search people without a warrant… but generally, for authority and record’s sake, it’s nice to have a warrant written.

Also, remember escalation logic!

7

that answer didnt mention warrants

8

just so nobody gets the wrong idea from the “extra info sprinkled on top”, you do not need a warrant to search a person on green on LRP. So as long as the officer doing the searching can provide “reasonable, articulable suspicion that a crime occurred, is being committed, or may occur in the near future due to the circumstances”, an officer can stop you for a search. 

given the OP’s own admission on the matter that you were:

  1. A chemist
  2. Away from your usual job station
  3. In a secluded area (maintenance) with no real cause or purpose
  4. Holding two bags
  5. Wearing gloves non-standard of your job
  6. Being extremely evasive or otherwise not providing any explanation that would satisfy your reason for being in maintenance and avoiding being searched

it could be arguable that there was enough information at this point to conduct a brief search of your person. I think immediately suiciding because you didn’t like the fact you “got caught” is lame; you probably could have argued your way out of that situation or at least got parole out of it instead of just instantly removing yourself. 

and to clarify further, this is my personal, non-admin opinion on the matter. until someone either marks the answer as correct or another admin says otherwise, that’s all it is, is an opinion.

9

Apologies… I am too accustomed to MRP. For clarification, in your situation, LRP, a warrant is NOT required for a green search. In MRP scenarios you will need a warrant for green searches as per spacelaw.

10

On 11/30/2023 at 10:53 PM, lonesoldier55 said:

just so nobody gets the wrong idea from the “extra info sprinkled on top”, you do not need a warrant to search a person on green on LRP. So as long as the officer doing the searching can provide “reasonable, articulable suspicion that a crime occurred, is being committed, or may occur in the near future due to the circumstances”, an officer can stop you for a search. 

given the OP’s own admission on the matter that you were:

  1. A chemist
  2. Away from your usual job station
  3. In a secluded area (maintenance) with no real cause or purpose
  4. Holding two bags
  5. Wearing gloves non-standard of your job
  6. Being extremely evasive or otherwise not providing any explanation that would satisfy your reason for being in maintenance and avoiding being searched

it could be arguable that there was enough information at this point to conduct a brief search of your person. I think immediately suiciding because you didn’t like the fact you “got caught” is lame; you probably could have argued your way out of that situation or at least got parole out of it instead of just instantly removing yourself. 

and to clarify further, this is my personal, non-admin opinion on the matter. until someone either marks the answer as correct or another admin says otherwise, that’s all it is, is an opinion.

I tried to argue my way out of it for several minutes. I didn’t suicide instantly. He just plain and simply wouldn’t let the issue go. Again, as I mentioned before, I would actually have been less pissed off if he had charged me with something decent. Which, a good officer actually would have. If he had said, ‘Hey, why are you wearing black gloves? Or, why are you standing there holding two bakcpacks?’ I would have taken that a lot better than ‘OMG, you’re in maintenance, instant criminal!’

I actually had another game where I did feel it was fair play in that I busted into Sec with a stolen ID and got caught because the Warden was smart enough to call me out for having the wrong shoes on. It amazed me that he had such amazing attention to detail as to notice my wrong shoe choice. Of all things, that’s what tipped him off. I handled that situation a lot better because someone with great skill and attention to detail called me out on my mistake. As opposed to being called out for the lame ass excuse of ‘You’re in maintenance, must be Syndie.’ It just feels waaaaaaaaaaaay too easy to me. Like there was no skill involved on his side. Good to know that when I play Sec in the future I can just randomly search on green anyone in maintenance. Who knew Sec could be so brain-dead easy?

It just felt unfair to be called out for no other reason than being in maintenance. Especially considering there were ample other far better reasons that he could have cited. Like I said in another post, I was kind of at least hoping in our conversation that he would have cited better reasons so that I could personally at least feel better about the situation. Like I said before, I even started debating him in LOOC because I felt he was so lame and out of line with what he was doing that I wanted to discuss it with him there too when in character chat failed to convince him to get off it.

But, from the list you just gave, it’s clear you can search anyone for pretty much any trumped up reason you can imagine in LRP.

11

11 hours ago, EVIL_ED said:

I tried to argue my way out of it for several minutes. I didn’t suicide instantly. He just plain and simply wouldn’t let the issue go. Again, as I mentioned before, I would actually have been less pissed off if he had charged me with something decent. Which, a good officer actually would have. If he had said, ‘Hey, why are you wearing black gloves? Or, why are you standing there holding two bakcpacks?’ I would have taken that a lot better than ‘OMG, you’re in maintenance, instant criminal!’

I actually had another game where I did feel it was fair play in that I busted into Sec with a stolen ID and got caught because the Warden was smart enough to call me out for having the wrong shoes on. It amazed me that he had such amazing attention to detail as to notice my wrong shoe choice. Of all things, that’s what tipped him off. I handled that situation a lot better because someone with great skill and attention to detail called me out on my mistake. As opposed to being called out for the lame ass excuse of ‘You’re in maintenance, must be Syndie.’ It just feels waaaaaaaaaaaay too easy to me. Like there was no skill involved on his side. Good to know that when I play Sec in the future I can just randomly search on green anyone in maintenance. Who knew Sec could be so brain-dead easy?

It just felt unfair to be called out for no other reason than being in maintenance. Especially considering there were ample other far better reasons that he could have cited. Like I said in another post, I was kind of at least hoping in our conversation that he would have cited better reasons so that I could personally at least feel better about the situation. Like I said before, I even started debating him in LOOC because I felt he was so lame and out of line with what he was doing that I wanted to discuss it with him there too when in character chat failed to convince him to get off it.

But, from the list you just gave, it’s clear you can search anyone for pretty much any trumped up reason you can imagine in LRP.

Take my posts as a whole, not as only the parts you want to passive aggressively use. You can’t just “search anyonenin maint on green”. There were absolutely other factors in play that could be used against you regardless of if they were outright stated. Yes, the bar for “reasonable suspicion” is very low, but it isn’t zero like random search. The fact of the matter is, don’t keep incriminating shit on you and you won’t get burned on a simple search.