Re-try banning evac bombing

Now that the objective changed and must include that body must not reach CC, ideally, people should be discouraged from bombing evac.

However, there have been two major issues with this expectation:
1- people just don’t reach patch notes/objective and assume old way still works
2- people just bomb evac right before it leaves and throw the body/brain of their target out of the shuttle.

I see no reason to not re-attempt the ban to evac bombing on LRP (at least on Vulture for the test) now that the kill objective has changed.
And if you ban it, people will be forced to actually do antag things during the round, and not just at the end, reducing the “nothing ever happens”-ness.

PS: I know it has been tried before, but that was with the old kill objectives.

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I gave this a thumbs up. Some thoughts:

On some maps, the evac shuttle is a mini version of the station and every department gets their own room. Is that just for cuteness or is it intended that the round, with antags trying to reach their goals, which often creates massive mayhem on the shuttle, continues on the evac shuttle?

If so, is it fun for players?

And if you ban it, people will be forced to actually do antag things during the round, and not just at the end, reducing the “nothing ever happens”-ness.

Mmmeeehhhh… I think other things are being done to make syndie spice up the shift. The stuff with thief gloves and noct nerfs its pushing for syndies going loud. If people are going to do it right before evac they are just going to do it right before evac, restricting bombing on evac isn’t going to stop that, it would just be done another way.

I’m not the biggest fan of evac bombing, but if it’s so bad it needs to get banned, the shuttle itself should just be invincible. Make it a feature rather than a rule, easier for the admins :blush:

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On MRP evac bombing is banned
And making the shuttle invinicble was something the maintainers said before is not the solution.

I recall someone said something once about finding out that almost every single bomb used on a shuttle was TCd in after departure. I unfortunately forget where…
My thought then is perhaps canonically TCs are damaged by FTL unless unless specifically shielded. Mechanically it could prevent things from being TCd in during the FTL, and require the would be bomber to do their orders first. May be worth considering.

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If you want to discourage players from bombing evac, it is important to leave little to no rule loopholes for players to play around.

When I was playing on a non-Wizden server, I notice that the pacifist trait was turned on when the evac shuttle arrived at Centcomm. If players will not follow proper rules either ignorantly or intentionally, can we enable the pacifist trait when players step into the evac shuttle?

Mechanical enforcement is still better imo.
This would be as simple as changing the objective to “Kill X before evac arrives”
Because the syndicate wants the remains to stay on station cuz reasons.

And then there is no more confusion. If you wait until evac arrives you instantly fail.
This is not really an issue with evac being easier, but the fact that there is nothing to loose. Nobody wants to out themselves early and get round removed, so they wait until evac.

Also, the shuttle is not supposed to be exempt from destruction. That is fine.
The issue is solely that antags will not do anything over the round otherwise.

If you want to keep the shuttle potentially spicy just let antags go hogwild after completing their objectives instead of having the “Do not cause excessive damage beyond your objectives” active at all times.
And if you think “But this will just make the shuttle problem worse”, consider that antags will usually out themselves earlier and be stopped earlier with this change. Making it less likely for any antag to reach the shuttle with a bunch of explosives.

SS14 already has a fairly high admin workload, much higher than other games. When we review features, we oftentimes take into account the admin impact and whether it would be seen as a problem. This goes for proposed features in an upcoming design document.

This is why we prefer to have mechanical enforcement, where the game physically discourages - or stops you - from preforming an action that we don’t want happening.

A great example is implanters being reworked. They are no longer shielded, and instead security is mechanically punished if they “get it wrong” or otherwise try to abuse it. No admins necessary to enforce it, and a very large headache around the metashield gone.

Similarly, thieving gloves have been removed from the traitor pool, and the ability simply given innately to the thief, as security is supposed to arrest the thief for the contraband they’ve stolen, not the fact that they’re a thief.

Of course, mechanical enforcement requires mechanics to be developed, and that takes a while - remember that SS14 is an open source project and the people who contribute to it are people spending their limited free time on the project.

A good example of this is the stun meta and traitor spiraling - the stun meta is currently real as upstream doesn’t currently have a knockdown system. Knockdowns give more depth to stuns and allows us to do more things, and increases the depth of combat. It makes stuns not a boolean “you’re out/you’re in”, it gives all players more options and ways to express their robustness.

Traitor spiraling is also another prominent one. Right now, surgery does not exist on upstream, and all wounds can be healed via simple topicals (which traitors can buy) or simple chems (which traitors can also buy). This allows one person to stay in a fight, consistently healed up and at full, indefenitely.

Surgery would introduce multiple aspects to this: limb and body part damage can inflict debuffs. These wouldn’t be able to be fixed using simple chemicals - only alleviated. The idea is that one person would eventually be whittled down and taken care of by multiple people, as they cannot cure their semi-permenant wounds and afflictions in the field.

Right now? One syndie can just heal up whatever they take and keep doing. So they can spiral and kill all of security. If this was a mechanic, we wouldn’t have to enforce this.

On Shuttle Damage

Currently, shuttle bombings are caused by multiple different things:

  • Explosives can be easily saved until end-of-round.
  • Your kill target has a high probability of being present in a very small area.
  • It is extremely hard to see what someone did on the evac shuttle.
  • It is difficult to arrest someone on the evac shuttle.
    • A very fair amount of players on LRP are just shitters and decide to mess with security for no reason when they’re trying to do something on evac. It’s just what little kids do.

We have tried to alleviate this in the following ways:

  • Shuttles now have a robust atmos system and are quartered off, so the entire shuttle is not doomed if a hole is punched in one section.
  • Shuttles can now be repaired (but not extended).
  • Shuttles can have their hull breaches and air quickly resolved and refilled using the buffed metal foam grenades and newly added air grenades.
  • Kill targets now require an explicit maroon. They must not make it to CC in general or else the objective will fail.
  • Kill targets/maroon targets are no longer counted as marooned if they take an escape pod.

We’ve thought about (and some people have PR’d) the following:

  • Explosives not being purchasable when evac is on the way.
  • Uplinks locking in FTL.
  • Objectives being more freeform.

Generally they all require some discussion and then implementation - players are also extremely vocal about locking uplinks and restricting bombs.

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What complaints have players had about uplinks locking during ftl? It’s probably one of the most reasonable options there. You can still place your bombs, just risking getting caught.

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