Reduce most salvage mob health, reduce most salvage weapon damage

ArtisticRoomba · June 8, 2025, 7:07pm

github.com/space-wizards/space-station-14

Reduce most salvage mob health, reduce most salvage weapon damage.

master ← Blackern5000:w-2025-6-7-salvDpsRebalance

opened 01:38PM - 07 Jun 25 UTC

## About the PR Reduces the HP of all salvage mobs except for the hivelord. Be…ar: 100 > 80 [80%] Kangaroo: 100 > 60 [60%] Cobra: 100 > 45 [45%] Spider: 90 > 45 [50%] Tick: 15 > 5 [33.33%] Sharkminnow: 150 > 82 [54.66%] Carp: 40 > 30 [75%] (Does not affect space dragon carp) Goliath: 250 > 150 [60%] Hivelord: 75 > 75 [100%] (Meant to be fought with a knife/dagger, which remain unchanged.) Basilisk: 80 > 50 [62.5%] Also reduces the damage of all salvage weapons except for the knife and dagger. Survival Knife: 12 > 12 [100%] (Basic station weapon, base for everything else) PKA: 25 > 15 [60%] Crusher Dagger: 12 > 12 [100%] (Should be at least a bit better than the knife, retains autoswing and faster swing speed) Crusher Axe: 20 > 18 [80%] (Attack rate reduced from 1.5 > 1, in reality the DPS has been reduced to 60%) Axe mark: 45 > 40 [88.88%] (Healing also reduced from 3.33 in each brute to 2 in each brute, that's the glaive's specialty) Crusher Glaive: 20 > 18 [80%] (Attack rate reduced from 1.5 > 1, in reality the DPS has been reduced to 60%) Glaive mark: 45 > 24 [53.33%] (Healing unchanged, will likely change it to favor slash if I rebalance mob damage in the future.) Slightly changes the glaive description and slightly changes the axe healing. View all DPS, TTK, etc. here: (This sheet also includes proposed damage changes for mobs, but those will be in a different pr if I choose to do them.) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Obu4oYAvwsUkr0f_W-dOlL-IMKSuYN_GKTpLCC0iexk/edit?usp=sharing ![image](https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/d385a2ed-a2d3-4ba8-b791-055073f6a75c) ## Why / Balance For awhile now salvage has has weapons on-par with security, and some of the best melees in the game, even compared to traitor weapons. There have been multiple attempts to bring them to a more balanced position for weaponry that doesn't put them HUGELY above the crew by default, but those have failed due to salvs no longer being able to fight the mobs they're pit against should the changes go through. I've nerfed various weapons to be closer to what the general crew can achieve, such as the PKA now only having 7.5 DPS, and the crushers having around the same DPS as a knife. I also thought it would be good to add a reason to use the axe over the glaive, since it only ever sees use currently when you don't have access to the latter. The dagger was nerfed slightly some time ago to have 24 DPS instead of 30, placing it below the energy sword, and as a result I don't feel the need to change it in this pr as it is not extremely overpowered as it was before. To go with these weapon nerfs, the mobs salvage goes against have also received HP decreases. Overall most have been reduced by about 40%, though there is some variation depending on what the mob does. Some of the numbers are a *bit* arbitrary but I don't think it'll matter all that much, the TTK remains roughly the same for most mobs. ## Technical details All yaml changes. - I had to add a new charge bolt version for the glaive to reduce the damage it deals on a charged hit. - Might merge conflict with Emo's structural damage pr, not sure. ## Media ![image](https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/d7881766-6de5-4a24-8d4e-8d97d0800920) ![image](https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/d385a2ed-a2d3-4ba8-b791-055073f6a75c) https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/66087f56-09d1-4447-908c-5274767aa895 ## Requirements - [X] I have read and am following the [Pull Request and Changelog Guidelines](https://docs.spacestation14.com/en/general-development/codebase-info/pull-request-guidelines.html). - [X] I have added media to this PR or it does not require an ingame showcase. **Changelog** :cl: - tweak: Most salvage enemies have had their HP reduced - tweak: Most salvage weapons have had their damage reduced

This PR rebalances most salvage weapon damage and mob health, in order to shift the focus of salvage weapons onto fighting carp and not crew.

It effectively makes salvage mobs the same health in the perspective of salvage weapons, while reducing the weapons effectiveness on crew.

This is part of a wider goal of ripping off the salvage powercreeping bandaid that has plagued the role for a while.

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Naomi37 · June 8, 2025, 7:23pm

would this effect space dragon carps? or just salvage ones?

Simyon · June 8, 2025, 7:25pm

The PR states " Carp: 40 > 30 [75%] (Does not affect space dragon carp)" so no, only the regular salvage carp are affected.

Princess_Chzblz · June 8, 2025, 11:43pm

PR is definitely a positive, my only concern are the changes to the wielded crushers.

Both crushers were nerfed which is good considering the overall nerf to salvage mob health but I think the ways they went about it are going to make the crushers no longer a desirable option for salvagers for a few reasons.

Firstly in the github I posted my caluclations about the expected damage you would take fighting a goliath in melee using both crusher leeches. I’m screenshotting those calculations and my suggestions here for clarity:

Glaive TTK has been raised and the nerfed Axe healing rate makes it so that fighting a goliath with an axe is effectively pointless (the damage you will take assuming perfect play is too much to justify going into melee range basically ever) and the glaive’s leech damage of 24 puts it literally 1 below of behaving how it did before which is an odd choice.

In addition, there is also the nerfed attack swing speed, one thing that was very nice about the crushers was that they were a useful tool in addition to being a useful melee weapon, one swing with them and you could break an asteroid rock like a pickaxe but twice as fast allowing you to break 3 rocks every two seconds. This was a bit slower than the drill which let you break 2 rocks every second, and way slower than the diamond drill of 4 every second, but was still a nice upgrade.

Nerfing the attack speed on the crushers makes them not really good for mining anymore, I think I’d rather find a drill then a crusher and a drill can be printed by sci very easily.

Lastly, this one is an oddity: They nerfed the structural damage on the glaive specifically.

The glaive was nerfed to do 20 structural? while the axe still does 30, meaning a glaive takes two swings to break an asteroid rock which is a really weird change to make and an extra weird change to not note in the changelog that’s a pretty massive nerf to the usability of the glaive.

Lastly, this PR doesn’t nerf PTK upgrades which gives a lot more value to using your PTK over a crusher ever. A damage PTK upgrade will make your PTK better than a crusher in basically every combat scenario since the only thing better than taking some damage is taking no damage.

Overall the PR is good but the changes to the crushers really irk me and continue to irk me, I think changes to the crushers should be requested and otherwise the PR is fine.