I’ll change it tomorrow, not sure if I should include it as a direct exception, or if I need to reword the whole thing.
but it seems security could reasonably disallow giving them a PDA entirely as well.
This is still a part of space law though.
I’ve already been experiencing this prior to the change, and it sucks ass. I ran into a detective who knew exactly what items and in which combinations thieves have access to at round start, and from that deduced I was a pacifist, and repeatedly brought up that I was a pacifist thief in character despite no indication this was true other than meta knowledge that thieves start with these items and are always pacifists. It was jarring and anti roleplay and I’m really not looking forward to interactions like that being the norm.
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The only issue I have with this is savvy heads putting their items behind like a metric ton of r walls, in a highly secure place, or to security.
This is solved with the Nuke Disk adding Lone Op Weight if it’s sitting still, which is a common mechanic in 13 to help prevent bad Captains from just leaving it sit. Doesn’t work so much for the other high-risk objectives.
This is a bit of a non-sequitur, people who don’t read the rules will break them regardless of if new ones are added.
I understand the workload would likely increase, but that’s never a problem that can’t be solved essentially, only through time. You’ll just have to rip the bandaid off and do it eventually, and the playerbase will learn at some point.
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Alternatively, we wait for mechanical enforcement of the NLR.
My goal since becoming headmin has been reducing the overall amount of rules pushing for mechanical enforcement where possible.
The metashield has been a big thorn in the side of the admins and the playerbase because obvious actions OOC, you had to play dumb about IC.
NLR is enforcable mechanically by changing critical and dead states. I am currently against trying to add more rules under the belief that more rules stifle players too much.
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The other high risk objectives generally have a mechanical benefit to using them and will usually be held onto because of the utility, the disk currently doesn’t actually do anything at all.
Yeah that’s fine. The Disk should get that mechanic and it relatively rounds everything else out.
Just updated the rule on git addressing some of the loopholes people brought up here and on git.
I strongly disagree with the removal of the meta-shield. I think the consequences of “not having to play dumb” are going to far outstretch the benefits. A lot of people will just straight up turn antag-roles off on MRP, as this more-or-less unleashes play-to-win-the-game-mode security into overdrive. And I already think they are empowered to grief legally, this just makes it worse.
One example of what I think we could see is comm searches and implant checks on Code Green because passengers were whispering alone in maintenance. A SecOff who sees them knows they must be using SyndiComms because they didn’t show up on the common radio.
It also eliminates any possible RP with Halo Clown/Parasite or Cerebus, which I think is a bummer.
Not to mention what this does to any sort of stealth gameplay. The second you get busted with any contra at all as a thief they will know exactly what implants to rip without even having to find the implanter. They’ll know to strip your comms and check all your clothing. It’s conceivable that since they know the gear comes in full kits, they could hold you until you reveal the location of your smugglers satchel or beacon since those are also going to be known to come in the thief set.
I keep thinking of more examples as I type and even had to delete a few for brevity. I just think this is really bad for antags and incredibly empowering to security. Almost every instance I can think of where this is going to matter is going to matter is a feels-bad type of way for the antag player.
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I fundamentally disagree but understand where you’re coming from.
Right now, antags are hugboxed to the point that even if they do incredibly overt actions, because they used a stealth item, it’s literally a get out of jail free pass because security cannot actually act on their knowledge that the stealth item is in play because they themselves did not see it.
What this does do is push stealth items into even more of a stealth role, and then something that you can, or should ditch, or change to throw security off.
Stealth items are supposed to be used to avoid getting caught, not be utterly immune to IC and OOC logic when you get caught.
On the radio thing, you don’t have to have a radio implant to mess with security as an antag by whispering. If security wants to kill themselves pulling a nonexistent implant out of you with “probable cause” take it as a win instead.
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There has gota be something else that can said that can convince you that “playing dumb” is just the role playing part of the experience. And the more we move away from that to just mechanically enforced solutions, we lose the role playing sandbox feel and it becomes more like Amoung Us. A game of Security vs Traitors where you can’t even give some one a Syndicate business card any more since it immediately outs you.
I don’t want to play Security vs Traitors. I want to play my silly space role playing game where sometimes a traitor shows up and blows something to pieces or tries to kidnap me. And I’d rather that be a great experience when people do it well and kinda frustrating when they don’t, then to have it not done at all.
I keep thinking of examples of where this is bad. There are many. I feel like I just keep writing out them out I’m going to look like an argumentative tool. Just please don’t do this change.
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I think the idea of the metashield concerning antags and the culture of playing dumb for their benefit goes against the very core idea of a social deduction game, instead making it a social turn-based game, where you have to wait your turn to act or else be breaking the metashield rules despite knowing there’s someone with malicious intent right in front of you trough social or instinct cues.
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This is exactly my point
playing dumb for their benefit goes against the very core idea of a social deduction game
I don’t feel like I’m playing a social deduction game. I thought I was playing an RPG sandbox game closer to D&D than Mafia/werewolf. I understand now that the game people are playing is that.
I’m starting to feel like I’m the one that is out of place. I’ve seen multiple admins and maintainers say this or something similar. I guess maybe the experience I want will be down stream. I didn’t want space station Mafia.
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yup, getting concerned with the direction things are taking lately, between wizard being full antag, now the direction being “too many rp rules so let’s remove the metashield”. I guess downstream might have greener space grass if the roleplay keeps going away like that
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I am currently against trying to add more rules under the belief that more rules stifle players too much.
There are rules that foster RP and there are rules that stifle RP. I’m just afraid you’re throwing the baby out with the bathwater and getting rid of rules that are necessary for RP to be possible, and allowing openly pointing at game-conceits (seeing a scary looking dog anywhere on the station means the chaplain must be a syndicate member with the a goal of doing specific crimes this shift, someone who has sunglasses at the start of shift must be a hostile revolutionary leader, someone with jaws of life and an advanced welder close to round-start is a pacifist thief), etc.
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I’ve been strongly for the removal, especially for the mentioned case of revs as currently their dynamic is awful solely due to metashield, however as others have said it is currently a necessary evil towards other mechanics core to the game. Tthe metashield is sort of filling a “temporary” role to make the game function as intended and uphold the gameplay loops. We would certainly need some changes to mechanically enforce or dissuade certain actions or playstyles will be needed. For example, damage when you fail an implant removal when the metashield was removed from implants.
Metashield is kinda like a foundation currently being built on, and it both needs to be redone but also is so core to what has been made, cutting all of it out at once would just cause the rest to metaphorically collapse.
It’s definitely a tough situation though as while metashield exists there’s a lot of incentive to rework core content (like stealth items, what antags have access to what, what antags are selected and when, etc.), but at the same time removing the metashield entirely will lead to many issues until the core structures are replaced (however long that may take).
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I don’t want to play Security vs Traitors. I want to play my silly space role playing game where sometimes a traitor shows up and blows something to pieces or tries to kidnap me.
I have the same opinion, and you might want to look into other MRP servers. As much as I’d like for it to be otherwise, Salamander is not it.
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I don’t talk to anyone or have any friends that play; and all the servers require some form of that to get whitelisted except Sala. I don’t know HOW to move.
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