Revolutionaries and their future in SS14

Development Feature Requests
1

So of my many hours of SS14, I have played a good amount as a Rev and Head Rev, but from experience, its not fun and its really annoying, the main problem is that Command or Security instantly break the Mindshield rules, to be fair I also have done it, but the problem is that no ones fixing this issue, there will always be that one Sec that will go up to a Tider or someone and ask to mindshield, and when they refuses, they get magdumped.

This is why I really dislike Revolutionaries, it has so much potential, like there have been a couple Idea’s that Revolutionaries should have a whole overhaul, In my idea they should get either a different way to convert or multiple ways to convert, and another thing that should be changed is the laws, Like in one instants:

[Straight from the Wiki.]

Like how can you specify that someone has “Lost control” is that annoying Tider that keeps slipping Secoff a Rev? Just because he’s acting weird and annoying?
Or Is a guy who murdered someone a Rev, because well… He murdered someone. There is no sort of line that separates goofy antics like slipping, annoying sec and Murder, Kidnapping, etc.

Rev’s should also Have another way to Unconvert, like getting an Implant that makes you UnRev is stupid and as I said gets abused a lot, I tried thinking of a couple ways to UnRev someone, but couldn’t come up with a viable one.

If anyone has some Idea’s feel free to reply Ill try to respond.

2 Likes
2

I think it would be interesting if Revs were not random people, but a full department that has the goal to make their command officer become captain. After they do so, everything goes back to normal-ish Would be nice for round antags to not have the goal of complete fuckery of the station.

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It seems interesting I like the Idea a lot.
Maybe some tweaks and it would be a good Idea, Maybe like if they would have a secret department, since they are still Syndies, like maybe they could have many other ways to convert a slow innocent way and an Illegal way which can get them arrested and more.

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revs are revs. this is pretty much how revs is. once there are MORE antagonists revs will seem less like this and more like just another antag who does their thing in their own way.

for rule clarifications idk but i dont think revs needs to be or SHOULD be changed from how it is now. its how it was before and its how it is now.

an alternative method to unrevving would be silly. implants only get abused a lot when all out war is apparent and then its not abuse bcoz the revs are killing heads. the implant is NT revving and it can be used to identify the head revs, it allows those who have sechuds to know who is friendly, as long as they arent a traitor or thief. if there was another way, it too would get “abused a lot”, implants also cost money and require compliance from the cargo department in some way, either by being abandoned or by being not revolutionized.

this is all gameplay, roleplay rule clarifications n whatnot r different but in terms of gameplay it makes sense and shouldnt be touched. headrevs should do what heads do best, stay back and out of the limelight, convert people and tell them what to do. this way they dont get arrested and mindshielded, they can also carry implanters (for un-mindshielding mindshielded people who were revs) personally i think there needs to be a rule clarification about remembering the headrev’s identity, or give the headrev a voice mask and maybe an agent id? they are syndicate and they are valuable. if people are allowed to rat on the headrev then the headrev should be able to conceal their identity while giving orders, and PDA messaging isnt in the game yet.

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5

Well I do understand where your coming from, but there’s a bit of an issue.

  1. While I haven’t played SS13 and I don’t know most of its rules and features, what I do know is that Revs as a gamemode doesn’t work out how it should, I like how it is now, but it just gets annoying when sec don’t listen to the mindshield rules, and a note I like the Idea of them getting at least something that could help them stay hidden or change themselves, like I think they should have their own version of the thieves toolbox, it doesn’t have to be a toolbox, maybe a briefcase or something.
  2. Now I disagree with this statement:

Like I have seen sec, Fifteen minutes into a round try and mindshield a chemist, and he refused and got magdumped, like he didn’t commit a crime, and the sec didn’t just break the mindshield rule, but he also took it upon himself to kill the chemist, without captain’s orders or letting him chose how he wants to die, and this happened atleast while I played A LOT. It was the same, Illegal mindshield and magdump if they refuse.

Reply to: thebadman
No you don’t get it, while yes it is sec’s job to takeout rev’s, they can’t just ask a Non-Prisoner to mindshield, in the rules it states that only prisoner’s can be subjected to mindshielding and if they refuse then its captains job to either perma or unalive him, but its also his choice on how he wants to die.

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How much sec fucked up depends on context how it did come to mindshielding, as soon as hrev/deconversion is confirmed it is security duty to get rid of brainwashing threat and eliminate the revolution.

Refusing mindshielding could result in lethal response depending on situation but ideally they would be subdued by non-lethal means. If they are not a revolutionary, said space law makes it even execution/perma offence.

If revolution wasn’t known, then we do not have sec side of story but outright escalating to lethal magdumping could have been gross incompetence

Either way it would be nice to have admin approved kind of acceptable suspicion of revolution examples other than having good feel at right time that does not get you bwoinked or revs openly annoucing themselves.

Hmm, now that you mention it, yeah. It should be added to SL what security can and can’t do during confirmed revolution because it suggests that legally security should not do their job and let people minds get killed(which is IC death of mind, in other words you till deconverded) and only act on open revs…

But at same time:
obraz
With confirmed revolution, anyone not mind-shielded is suspected of being a hrev that commits crime of unlawful control, so there are legal grounds for mass shielding both IC and for admins should you get bwoinked.

But if someone does not know what to look specifically in SL to get there, they will easily get confused.

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real. honestly ahelp it, thats not an issue with the game its an issue with the player, and they need to be told off or job- banned or smth. if that happened it would make the game playable as a head rev, and its how the game is meant to be played. the officer should have to uphold the law or suffer consequences. maybe their actions were justified bcoz they knew he was a head rev and killed a head but you shouldnt be able to handcuff and shoot them, as you said, that should have consequences that are known beforehand, such as a chain of command and a legal system.
lol consequences to in game actions judged by in game players, 5 day job ban given by judge after court took place. honestly the game would be AWESOME with these roles.

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8

Here’s the idea I came up with a few weeks ago:

The round begins with three players chosen as antagonists: two Head Revolutionaries and one Lead Revolutionary. These revolutionaries start with syndi coms access, allowing them to coordinate and find a location to set up their forward operating base (FOB).

The Head Revolutionaries each start with 5 tokens, while the Lead Revolutionary starts with 5 tokens and a revolutionary flatpack. When the flatpack is deployed, it creates a stationary uplink that can be used to buy and sell items.
The revolutionaries will insert their tokens into the uplink and purchase special flashes, each costing 5 tokens, which can convert those flashed into revolutionaries (no more using regular flashes).
They then go out and flash up to 15 people, recruiting them to help steal and sell high-value items like the digital board, CE mag boots, and PDAs from Security and Command (not the IDs).
Once these items are sold at the revolutionary uplink, they convert into more tokens that can be spent on additional special flashes, surplus rifles, ammo, revolutionary communications, pipe bombs, armor, makeshift laser pistols, and other items that encourage swarming tactics.

When the revolutionaries are discovered, or when they are ready to take over, the Lead Revolutionary (or a Head Revolutionary if the Lead is dead) can use the uplink to announce the uprising to the crew. This announcement, similar to War Ops, grants the revolutionaries additional tokens to spend on various items. However, it also causes all revolutionaries to receive an armband that identifies them to Security and the crew:

Regular revolutionaries get a red armband.
Head Revolutionaries get a blue armband.
The Lead Revolutionary gets a gold armband.

If the uplink is found and destroyed before the uprising announcement, or if the revolutionaries choose not to announce their presence, they won’t receive any identifying armbands, allowing them to continue operating in secret.

1 Like
9

I am not going to lie, this sounds so fun, the whole Idea is amazing, adding a Lead, making them work in the shadows, the Rev-War ops announcement, all of it is amazing.
But I have to ask:

Why no the ID’s? Like Revolutionaries mission is to convert and take out command [while writing this I understood why, I agree that they shouldn’t take ID’s because then it would be too easy they could just go almost everywhere, but then there needs to be a reason]

But apart from that, the concept is amazing and I think this should replace revs, its a way better Idea.

But a few tweaks or features I had in mind :

  1. When the Rev’s deploy the flatpack that’s it, they can no longer pick it up, to make it a bit more riskier and it would make them think carefully.

  2. I think that to become a Lead Revolutionary you would need at least 600min’s of overall playtime, because we wouldn’t want some newbie to get Lead Rev and mess it up, something similar with the Nukie Commander and Agent.

  3. I like the Idea of making somewhat Mission based like, convert 15 people, steal that and that, but then I think that when its Rev’s there shouldn’t be any Thief’s, Syndies and of course Nukies. Also I think that Rev’s should only happen with at least a 50 Player lobby.

  4. The last thing was that the Revolutionaries would have two Declaration options:
    Peaceful/Diplomatic solution, where they would either protest as a big group peacefully or they would charge the bridge/Cap and make him sign over the station to them, there for making it their station.
    The Revolution/War solution, they would use all of their tokens [which would get doubled because of the announcement] gear up, and let the Command member’s prepare security for War, the winners keep the station, of course it might seem one sided but the revolutionaries could have explosives or maybe even Raid suits for a couple of them, and of course some guns.

P.S I like the arm-band Idea, but it just doesn’t seem very doable, maybe something to do with the Sec and Admin glasses showing them the letter R in the different colours.

10

Sorry for the confusion about the IDs—I meant that the revolutionaries should keep the IDs and sell the PDAs for tokens. Regarding your first and second points, I completely agree and assumed you’d interpret “stationary uplink” as immovable. For your third point, I don’t believe revolutionaries ever had other antagonists besides thieves.

I’d also like the number of starting revolutionaries to scale with player count, though unfortunately, people often don’t press ready in the waiting screen, so setting the rev start threshold at 50 players seems reasonable.

As for your fourth point, I love the idea of peaceful revolutions, but Security will be Security, and it’s wishful thinking to believe they won’t just kill all the protestors.

Regarding the armbands—they are so important! Revolutionaries were removed in the past because regular crew members were continuously getting killed during rev rounds by swarms of rev “tiders,” who were “denying the enemy recruits” rather than attempting to convert them. Having a visible armband will show the crew that the person in front of them is either trying to brainwash or harm them, allowing people to fight back or run. If revolutionaries want to gain more tokens for troops or equipment, they’ll have to sacrifice their secrecy.

P.S. I think the revolutionaries’ Declaration of Independence should give a flat number of tokens—like 20—since they probably wouldn’t want to declare independence just to double the 3 tokens they might have.

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I was a rev IRL my self and I can say that the best course of action is to make the rev like a department and add you know peaceful protests and such the cause of some dude grabbing a gun is very low if the demand is met and most of the time the revolution start from workers unions or A segregated majority.
like I would say, I think being a rev department that is working for the betterment of the station is better than making them the generic cultists or nuclear operative. Humans start revolutions.

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The big problem of revs is that when they convert its not a given a person will be beneficial to the cause. From what I understand at least, the goal of revs is to replace leadership, not to destroy a whole station. So if e.g. engineering gets converted, they should still do their jobs of maintaining the station and providing power and air. And engineering has its hands full doing just that most of the time without revolution on top of it, very few people can be spared for the non-engineering causes. Or like, if I’m a chemist and I get converted, I got no beef with non-command crew and I still wish the station to be staffed and working in the post-revolutionary future, entire medbay depends on my chems, so I just keep doing my job that nobody else can do. It is of course possible an unconscious command person will drop at my feet and then I’ll do my best to finish him off but otherwise a converted chemist is no different from a non-converted one. So it is with other essential crew roles. Like, if you’re the only atmosian and you got converted, you still gotta go do atmos cause nobody else can and revolution with everyone suffocated would be a failure in my book.

On the other hand, non-revs see that you got converted and start smashing your skull with a toolbox. Crew, the non-command kind, feel they’re free to kill converted people even if they’re trying to help them. Very frustrating.

2 Likes
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I feel you man thy fill your head with “we are a family” bullshit but when it comes to wanting more bread thy want you dead.

14

This is my opinion of the game mode.

The issue with revs is very simple. Rev game mode lacks balance between departments. This kind of apply to ALL game modes, but revs is just the most noticeable.
To see the problems, I will break down the game mode to the very basics.

What options Rev head has determines his actions and the same applies to Command to beat revolution.

Rev win condition is to convert enough people to steam roll the station. For that they need flashes to convert people. Which means most of the game mode currently revolves around flashes and its production/aquirement, so the ability to gain more flashes is the biggest factor determining how the game mode will play out.
As there are only 2 ways to acquire flashes, which is trough science or cargo the people who have the most fun usually are those who are part of those two departments, where command for those departments has the least fun because they are gibbed first with little warning, RD’s are basically doomed from the start.

This results in this current murderboning madness because most of the players who do not belong Sci or Cargo are bystanders. They have no real objectives.
You just turned a player into an Antag, but has nothing to work towards except preparing to kill Command, Sec or crew. What do you think players will do? It specially newish?

Lets say if the service department gets converted…
What can they offer to revolution? Practically nothing, botany can grow some spicy fruits…
Engineering. They cannot turn off power or deal with air or turn off comms because it works against Rev’s interests and just only alerts sec/command.
Again, no real value to Rev heads to take over engineering.
So if Rev head who take Engineering over first usually end up with Engies going around with crowbars and help rev head convert more people or crowbar gib heads.
Medical. Medics just stand there and no nothing, just waiting for next wounded crew to heal but then again, it doesnt matter if they are Rev or not, nothing much changes there.
You cannot blame the players for their behavior when their job role determines how they can interact with each game mode and most roles have no interaction with rev’s except just going around killing the people who disrupt revolution as they have nothing else to offer

And for command its even worse… To beat revolution they literally have only 1 path. Its to get control of cargo and buy shit tonns of implants.
Security has no tools to determine if any one is normal crew or revolutionary. So they just stand and wait until some one jumps on them first and man thats not fun game play experience either.

I would add 2 changes to revs.
First revs having special flasher that’s recharging by it self. Have it only having 2 max charges and it gains back a charge every 45 seconds.
It would remove the Rev head main focus to acquire more flashes and offer more variety styles of gameplay.
Basic flasher still do what they do.

Second is to add more ways to gain mind shields or tools interact with it.
Im just gonna add some random examples which you should not take too seriously.
First could be, where MedFab could print mind shields, maybe science has to research it first, that would make Command interact with more departments to fight the revolution.
Then an implant that could remove mindshields as well… That would allow revs to convert people who were mind shielded.
Then both Rev and Command sides would fight for one or more department control and do not have only one solution to the problem.
Both sides needs relatively equal interests to compete for control of departments and all departments should have something to offer to further the goal of revolution that’s not straight up just being and pair of extra hands with crowbars.

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