Space Law/Server Rules Improvements

Development Feedback
1

  • Very often when playing as an antag, I will talk and RP with an officer, and while I am talking (not running away, not attacking them) I am hit in the face with a stun-baton and cuffed.

  • Equally, as often, when playing security, I will stop someone to talk to them or to conduct a random search and then get magdumped while I am typing.

Antags and Sec are not incentivized to RP as communication is in mechanical conflict with combat, evading arrest, and evading death, and the stakes for the players involved are relatively high (character death, being searched, arrested, perma’d). I believe that establishing clear procedure expectations for security will incentivize good RP and provide an alternative to “play-to-win” behavior.

To this end, Space Law/Server rules for security need to be more clear when discussing arrests, searches, evidence, and accusations, as well as accountability for “hiring” free agents. The following questions should be explicitly answered. This will help new players and experienced players when navigating the complex (and often emotionally charged) situations that arise between security, crew, and antags.

Detaining and Arresting

  1. Is there a formal difference in game between detaining and arresting?
  2. When is a security officer allowed to detain someone?
  3. When is a security officer allowed to arrest someone?
  4. When arresting, when should the officer employ nonlethal force?

Evidence and Accusation

  1. Does solely the testimony of a crew member warrant detention/search/arrest?
  2. Does solely the testimony of a command member warrant detention/search/arrest?
  3. Are security officers allowed to arrest without physical evidence?
  4. Are security officers allowed to brig a suspect without physical evidence?

Additional musing:
Free Agents (MRP powergaming rule)

  1. Are Command/Security permitted to hire a skeleton given that many server rules which would normally apply to security players do not apply to the skeleton?
  2. Is a head of security essentially powergaming by proxy when hiring a skeleton?
2 Likes
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This is already covered by rules.
First of all, unless you’re proven to be armed and dangerous (as in, you have killed people and engaged in active combat, thus a KoS was ordered) you can’t just be shot with lethals.
Second, escalation rules apply. You cannot shoot someone dead out of the blue.

Arresting

  1. If you mean retained as in, kept in cuffs for no reason nor put in a cell. Yes. The rules say that you should be processed in a sensible time. Arresting is solely about restraining you for a search or to bring you to sec.
  • 3 Whenever the wanted person has been labeled as such or been accused of a sufficiently grave crime to skip an investigation. Actually imprisoning them is often handled at sec where you can’t just run away.
  • 4 Anytime there isn’t immediate danger to them. So always by default.

Accusation

  1. If it is believable enough, yes. Deception and confusion is part of the game. It isn’t supposed to be a real legal system where you need proof to go and search someone or where a NON-100% certainty is not enough.
  2. Similarly to point 1, yes. Command is also held to a higher standard along with their higher autorithy. Making it more logical to follow their order both IC and OOC. I am pretty sure that knowingly making a fake arrest order is illegal under space law.
  3. Not really unless there is knowledge of the criminal being loose and you being the main person being accused. Even then, imprisonment is a different matter that DOES need some degree of evidence or the testimony of several people.
  4. Generally, no. Unless the case is very obvious (refer to point 1).

Free agents:

  1. Yes. The knowledge that someone is a free agent is OOC stuff which doesn’t need to be followed IC. It is generally against server rules to use OOC knowledge to accuse/clear of suspicion someone, such as the fact that command cannot self antag under normal circumstances. Since it IS possible for people to impersonate command or be otherwise made antags.
    In the same way, it is possible for non-antags to use antag-related gear and commit crimes of the same degree.
  2. Not at all. Not even OOC. A skeleton is a free agent, therefore they are allowed to betray the HoS just as much as they are free to follow their orders. It is a risky action OOC and the HoS is still required by server rules to punish the skeleton should they violate space law.

If you see any of these points being violated. AHELP
At worst you’ll get your doubts cleared. At best you’ll improve the server for everyone by culling malicious players.

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To answer your questions one by one in detail:

  1. Is there a formal difference in game between detaining and arresting?

Formally no, but practically kind of. Time spent in cuffs not in a cell is considered processing and the only regulations considering that is that it should be in a “Timely Manner”. If you consider stopping a person from moving for something like a search then you probably consider that detainment.

  1. When is a security officer allowed to detain someone?

When there is either Reasonable suspicion, Probable cause, or evidence to support a search/stoppage. Alert level blue and above automatically provides Security with permission to search or “Detain” anybody they see for safety.

  1. When is a security officer allowed to arrest someone?

Like with detainment usually when there is Probable cause (Security saw the crime take place in their vicinity) or sufficient evidence to support that a crime was committed. Do note that the quality of the evidence is hardly an issue, you can be arrested because of a victims testimony alone for the most part.

  1. When arresting, when should the officer employ nonlethal force?

The officer should employ non lethal force against a suspect if the suspect is:

Being arrested
Combative against arrest attempts
Fleeing arrest
Armed and dangerous

Security officers can employ non-lethal force to effect an arrest even if the suspect is non-combative with how space law works.

Evidence and Accusation

  1. Does solely the testimony of a crew member warrant detention/search/arrest?

Yes, testimony alone is often enough for an arrest, detainment, search, etc because this is a game and we dont expect players to be as skilled as actual police officers in law enforcement. The only exception if the testimony is obviously fake.

  1. Does solely the testimony of a command member warrant detention/search/arrest?

Same answer as above, who the testimony comes from rarely matters unless the testimony is obviously fake.

  1. Are security officers allowed to arrest without physical evidence?

Yes, they may arrest with testimony alone provided its not 100% fake.

  1. Are security officers allowed to brig a suspect without physical evidence?

Also yes, same as above.

Free Agents (MRP powergaming rule)

  1. Are Command/Security permitted to hire a skeleton given that many server rules which would normally apply to security players do not apply to the skeleton?

They are permitted to hire skeletons, but they may not hire them soley because they are a free-agent and give them orders security cant do (that would be OOC and likely metagaming). Security is whomever held to the responsibility of managing the skeleton and monitoring it. From my knowledge we do not consider this powergaming.

  1. Is a head of security essentially powergaming by proxy when hiring a skeleton?

No, hiring skeletons is not powergaming as skeletons being free agents do not mean they are an immediate upgrade to security. Skeletons can be a detriment to security if they betray after being promoted.

This is mostly just reiterating points Nancok mentioned but I figured I might as well give my input.

2 Likes
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Is there a formal difference in game between detaining and arresting?
If you mean retained as in, kept in cuffs for no reason nor put in a cell. Yes. The rules say that you should be processed in a sensible time. Arresting is solely about restraining you for a search or to bring you to sec.

Detention is different from arrest IRL. Detaining someone is a temporary stop for questioning, while arresting someone is taking them into custody. In game, detention is “stop and talk to me or I will arrest you” where as arrest is “I am cuffing you and taking you to sec on charges of X Y Z”.

When is a security officer allowed to arrest someone?
Whenever the wanted person has been labeled as such or been accused of a sufficiently grave crime to skip an investigation. Actually imprisoning them is often handled at sec where you can’t just run away.

This needs to be more precise. If someone says “clown did X” on radio, security should first mark the clown suspicious of committing X, then respond to the scene and determine whether clown is guilty of X, and then set to them to wanted for X, and then arrest them." That is the logical procedure that sec behavior should follow. They don’t need to update the criminal records before responding or arresting but ideally they should. Security should generally expected to receive confirmation in the form of physical evidence or additional eyewitness accounts before arresting someone, except in situations where there is risk of further crew harm.

When arresting, when should the officer employ nonlethal force?
Anytime there isn’t immediate danger to them. So always by default.

So a security officer should ALWAYS stunbaton/disabler the suspect, even if the suspect is compliant? The answer here is obvious, but in game it is a very different story.

Does solely the testimony of a crew member warrant detention/search/arrest?
If it is believable enough, yes. Deception and confusion is part of the game. It isn’t supposed to be a real legal system where you need proof to go and search someone or where a NON-100% certainty is not enough.

Security should not need proof in order to search someone accused of a crime, but they should need proof to arrest and imprison someone for a crime. Multiple testimonies should constitute sufficient evidence in the absence of physical evidence This means that, unless the suspect is accused of committing a major or capital crime, the suspect should be detained (not arrested) and searched and/or additional evidence should be gathered before formally arresting and brigging them.

Does solely the testimony of a command member warrant detention/search/arrest?
Similarly to point 1, yes. Command is also held to a higher standard along with their higher autorithy. Making it more logical to follow their order both IC and OOC. I am pretty sure that knowingly making a fake arrest order is illegal under space law.

Command is held to a higher standard in the server rules only. There is no space law crime corresponding directly to false testimony/accusation, the only good fit would be disturbance (minor crime). Knowing that a CMO can’t/shouldn’t lie when accusing someone because of server rules is metagaming. Knowing that the CMO is a command member vetted by NT and therefore probably isn’t lying is not metagaming, and obligates the security player to investigate further, not immediately arrest and brig without evidence. Arresting someone without any evidence other than “RD said they did X” should not be allowed. It is very difficult for commit major or capital crimes without leaving some form of evidence. Antagonists who successfully destroy/hide all evidence of a crime they committed should be rewarded. Currently evidence is treated is irrelevant. I think only HoS and Captain should be able to have people arrested solely on the basis of their testimony and should do so only for major or capital crimes.

For the rest I agree with your answers.

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1.Does solely the testimony of a crew member warrant detention/search/arrest?
Yes, testimony alone is often enough for an arrest, detainment, search, etc because this is a game and we dont expect players to be as skilled as actual police officers in law enforcement. The only exception if the testimony is obviously fake.

Perhaps the way I worded the question was poor. Given the difference between detention, which means “stop or I will arrest you” and arrest which means “I am cuffing you and taking you to sec on charges of X Y Z”, how far can simple unconfirmed testimony take you? In my opinion, that accusation can warrant detention and search, but not arrest if no other evidence exists. Multiple eyewitness testimonies may count as evidence, but a security officer should not arrest a botanist because the chaplain said the botanist had an esword. They may search the botanist, but if no esword or other evidence is found, the botanist cannot be arrested.

  1. Are security officers allowed to arrest without physical evidence?
    Yes, they may arrest with testimony alone provided its not 100% fake.

I addressed this above, but again there should be a difference between detaining and searching vs arresting. Running away from detainment can be grounds for arrest (Failure to Comply, 2-00) but simply being accused should not be grounds for sec to stun baton you on sight. If botanist is accused of having an esword, a security officer should bring backup with them to detain and search, not disable the suspect on sight in the absence of any other evidence. If multiple witnesses report an esword, that should constitute sufficient evidence for immediate arrest with nonlethal force or lethal force if the suspect attacks the security officers.

Abstractly what I am arguing is that escalation rules need to be tied in with available evidence, and a thicker line needs to be drawn between detaining+searching vs arresting and brigging, and that these need to be explicitly added to Space Law or server rules where appropriate. Requiring sec to have sufficient evidence to brig people is healthy for the game as it fights against metagaming.

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In response to the above the reason why testimony is often enough to arrest is because we dont expect players to be actual police officers.

Whilst yes it would be better, space law as of right now doesn’t require evidence for every crime committed to act on it. Simply just testimony is often enough provided the suspect had the ability to carry out such a crime and that the testimony is not fake.

This also applies to the use of non-lethal force, security may immedaitely escalate to it to carry out an arrest at any point in the arrest attempt.

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I once had a guy go from basic 2 minute sentence to execution cause they would not stop escaping. (the entire front of sec got blown up and instead of just waiting they booked it). just comply with a short (albeit wrongful) sentance. aslong as they say what you are being arrested for. just remain calm. 90% of the time most of your actions can result in your fate getting worse.