like “neglect of duty” / “negligent discharge” / “Abuse of authority” (captain s worst nightmare) / “unlawfull arrest” / “Unreasonable search and seizure” / “misconduct” etc.
because command and security sometimes does stuff and they get away free because there is no laws for it (these also gives more possibility that lawyers actually can dig in cases and be able to do somethink about it)
I dunno if we need laws for these.
Its not a crime to be bad at your job or not do your job, I think getting arrested over something like this isn’t the way to go.
However as head of department you should hold your team accountable, if someone abandoned there job you should terminate them (demote to passenger).
If a command member is unreasonable incompitant or is doing some other fo-par they can be fired by collecting the stamps of all other command members removing them from the role. offically refeared to a legal munity by CC if its the captain. (ive done this twice as HoP to unreasonable caps)
Unlawful arrest might be crime worthy. If you arrest someone cause metagrude or for no reasons you should be rolebaned from SEC by amins and demoted in character IMO
Unreasonable search and seizure doesn’t need a law, on blue or above sec has the right to search everyone. on green you can just say no and then they need a warrent unlawful search should be handled in character by vitcim/lawyer/ward/hos/cap and can result in demotion.
misconduct CAN sometimes come under a 1-07 or 2-05 if anoying or a danger to others. but if it cant get to either of these thresholds we likely dont need a law for it.
the idea here is giving ability to deal with those IC before admeme pops up, because it usually takes long if they ever pop up at first place
and yes you should be arrested IC if you spawn as sec and refuse to do your job, you taking the security slot
disharge crime is aimed to prevent security shooting at sides to scare or mess with people
unreasonable search and seizure does need law because its so common on green alert (and some sec take away stuff even though they are not restricted or used in crime)
misconduct also need law because even if its rare, i see people lie about charges or don t have any evidence but they still charge people (and lawyers can t do anythink about it)
unlawfull arrest law also needs to exists because again, its common and lawyers can t do anythink about it
Most of these issues are admin only as they break server rules. Captain and sec specially are required by server rules to follow space law, any case where a captain would need to be jailed will probably require admin intervention because it should never get to that point in the first place.
They are not laws because they should not be able to happen in the first place. Altho things like negligent discharge falls under endangerment and neglect of duty falls under failure to comply and also breaks the server rule of not abandoning your role (if someone’s just slow or bad at their job, then that’s just a skill issue, not something ppl should get punished for).
If the players are breaking server rules, do you REALLY think they are gonna care about the IC law? As i said earlier, this is job-ban worthy. Not something that should be handled IC.
Do keep in mind, sometimes sec gets deceived into the wrong picture and someone else gets arrested by mistake. That is part of the game and the lack of information that players have.
A lawyer can absolutely form a case to bail out someone under false charges, that is what the court is for and there is even a dedicated status for prisoners that have been bailed out. But currently lawyer is too poorly designed to work at all.
Just because YOU know what happened doesn’t mean sec does nor is required to before making an arrest, they would need a literal replay for that.
If you see them get the right information and they make an arrest on non-existent crimes, then you can ahelp.
You can deal with these IC already. A department head has the authority to demote their workers if they deem it necessary - if their worker refuses to work, is putting other people in danger, or is doing their job so poorly it’d be better if they weren’t doing it at all… just demote them. You don’t need these things to be crimes in order to demote people.
Something I see a lot is Sec having valid concerns, detaining and investigating people. Then finding out it was because someone dropped the ball communication wise and releasing the person. It’s reasonable to detain them, even though they did nothing wrong.
Here’s 2 examples that happened to be earlier today on the same shift. There is no CMO shift start. I find holographic nanomachine fibers on a box of syndie smokes, (so chameleon shield is broken) the HOP promotes the Chaplin to CMO and doesn’t inform hos, sec or tell them to get mind shielded. Someone late joins to fill the CMO slot. I see the Chaplin turned CMO walking around without a mindshield. I immediately detain them as they had CMO gear and ID card with a Chaplin PDA. I find out that they are legitimate via radio in sec. I release the chaplin turned cmo with a mind shield. I get called shitsec.
The second time, somone comes into sec not wearing a sec uniform and I see a passenger icon with a mindshield on my hud. They say that they were a cadet, but they lost their ID. Earlier in the shift I already extracted 1 implant from a thief and was suspicious of them having a fake mindshield. I detain them and remove their mask to see their face and ask why they have a passenger icon when they said they didn’t have an ID and had their stuff stolen. They then informed me that the HOP must have put the wrong icon on them, and they got a replacement ID. I then let them go and got called shitsec by onlookers.
In both of these scenarios neither person committed a crime, but I still had reasonable suspicion to detain and investigate. I think if you add laws like this, it would just make sec officers fearful to do their job due to breaking the laws. Also this would increase Ahelps for non-issues if this was added. In both of these cases people were crying shitsec and would be calling for my demotion or imprisonment even though I had valid reasons. If someone is legitimately breaking space law that is already an OOC violation and can be ahelped. Adding something to space law that specifically only applies to sec officers turns an OOC issue into an IC issue too.
I’m also really bad at remembering when my combat mode in enabled and I sometimes negligently discharge (I’m getting better though I promise!). Adding that to space law would make it an Ahelpable offense when it doesn’t need to be.
I want to give extra credit to OP since you brought it up.
But those detainments do feel bad, even happened to me before.
Like, you know you didn’t do anything, but you are being stopped from playing for no real reason anyway, and feels like you are a bad explanation away from getting arrested unjustly for what feels like another player’s whim.
But i’ve learned to enjoy it as part of the RP. At least so far, in my (checks steam) around 1000 hours, i have been arrested falsely maybe once (altho i don’t really remember it happening, i just have a feeling it must have happened at one point cuz sometimes i thread the line). And every other encounter was a pretty amicable “Hey, can you come to sec?” or “I am here to arrest you” and i go “Ok…”.
Then i go to sec, explain stuff, and when they inevitably come up short on any sort of evidence i am let go.
I actually did this the few times i have played antag and i only got caught because i didn’t know how to properly dispose of evidence.
Yes getting falsely arrest SUCKS. It sucks when I do it to other people even when I have a valid reason. I feel bad wasting their time. I try to investigate as fast as possible so I can release them if they check out. Usually this is because someone drops the ball on communication and sec ends up getting blamed. (sometimes this is their fault like when warden forgets to release from the records computer) There are other times where people get arrested and are “framed” or there are other sets of circumstances where sec 100% believes someone did a crime and evidence supports that, but they really didn’t. being “framed” doesn’t happen very frequently at all.
Based on the severity of the offence I choose to either shoot first (disabler) and ask questions later, or I simply ask them to come to sec. Someone is impersonating sec or command? I detain first. Someone is wanted for trespassing or simple weapons possession, ask them to come with me.
Yeah the other day I got searched on blue as non-antag Chaplin, I had commited no crime and had no contra band I had medbay access but a form in my bag stamped giving me access to medbay so I was all clean.
The officer turned around and asked me to come to sec. Me, Having commited no crime, refused to come to sec as I haddn’t done anything wrong, so they arrested me for failure to comply, setenced me without involving ward and gave me 5 minutes. Which was SO BS that I Ahelped and spent a good 30 minutes getting them remove from sec for it, which thanks to round events I failed to do (war ops happened to start right after they arrested me)
Since searches are always permitted on blue, that officer did nothing wrong. Did you mean to say on green?
I think their issue is being asked to go to sec with no cause.
Honkers is right
In ss13 there were this rules which go both ways:
1.On green you cannot arrest or search people because “SUS” without warrant from HoS.
2.On blues you cannot undress people naked, search their comms, PDA. Only bags and pockets are searched(no you cannot cut open plushies either).
3.After people arrested. YOU STILL CANNOT TAKE AWAY THEIR PDA AND COMMS, unless they are CONFIRMED AGENT.
4.If their jail time 5 minutes or less. You cannot take their jumpsuit\skirt etc.
5.You cannot take items that were not used to commit a crime. If guy broke into something using toolbelt, you can take it.
6.If a person have a head stamped paper that permits them to have a department restricted item. You cannot take it or radio it all over station(cybersun pen metashield thing), unless you are other member of command
Example: You have CE magboots and CE “DID NOT REPORT IT STOLEN”. Then if you have CE stamped paper that say “Name” permitted to use this magboots for duration of a shift. You cannot take those or arrest the guy.
But if cap\hos see you wearing those, he can inquire about command only items protocol breach. While cmo\rd\hop dont give a damn
Now other side ON RED
1.Everyone who is not in their department can be considered sus
2.If sec tells you to get out, you get out.
3.It`s known as 1984 alert for a reason, disobeying orders from heads or sec at this level is a reason for arrest.
4.If you resist arrest by not just running, but actually causing damage to sec off on this alert level, even as low as 1 damage(Brute, heat, pierce etc.). You are going to get lethaled on a spot
5.If they wasn’t to search department without warrant, now they can
6.And no cap\hos cannot declare it for no reason. And if they do HoP should fax CC about their demotions.
Explanation: HoP is second to Captain and the only person who can demote Cap via CC or department sighed papers.
You need 5 head to confirm demotion without CC. So HoP, CE, CMO, RD, QM in ss13. Which you copy and throw around everywhere so crew knows and have conformation in their hands
Why only 5? In case HoS is with cap(which happens a lot).
Important Q&A
Q:What happens if Sec resist orders?(Warden, detective and sec off`s still stand with HoS\Cap after seeing the paper).
A:Well Its time for legal armed rebellion. Usually accompanied by them gathering trusted crew, flying to ATS with QM, QM digiboarding combat gear. And you can imagine the rest.(Ai usually with them, since it listens to RD in ss13).
Q:But what if this happen when CC is present?
A:Oh you know what happens
No I complied with the search, it was after the search that they asked me to come to sec… and it was me refusing to do so that got me arested. but why would you ask a person who haddn’t done anything to come to sec you know? then they threatened me saying “we can do this the easy way or the hardway” it was right BS.
Honestly we really need some unlawful arrest standard, being arrested for refusing to be arrested without reason is so rubbish.
In Wizden, breaking the law (even if it is to follow orders from a head) still means breaking space law. Which is a breach of the high standard rule.
So if sec breaks the law because HoS told them, they are still breaking server rules. And i have even seen recent bans due to trying to comply with unlawful orders.
Now that`s a classic ss13 shitsec i knew(rebellion against which was so frequent, that it gave birth to revs game-mode). And the reason RIOT gear exist.
Banning secoffs is kinda wtf. Because wtf you are supposed to do? Arrest HoS and Cap armed with lethal gear? Alone? Without breaking laws?
There`s a reason why you fax CC or go to HoP in ss13.
Solo secoff arresting cap\hos without CC or HoP assistance\paperwork would be the same as thief with pacifier implant to have objective to kill a Captain.(Unless you are breaking all laws, metashield and circumvent stuff. IT IS NOT HAPENNING. You might just go cryo at this point to try avoiding ban).
It would warrant a warning from Gods in ahelp. “Hey if command break this stuff. Send fax to CC. Or Ahelp”
But if gods not there. Don`t expect lone secoff to pull out Jason Borne without blowing up half of the station(and then prob getting banned for station damage)
Step one is to simply not follow the order. You say “No, that breaks space law”.
Step two is to contact HoP or the captain. If neither are willing to help you AHELP it.
If the HoS is actively commiting a dangerous crime and refuses to stop, you warn then try to arrest them. If they resist, you AHELP instantly (you can ahelp earlier, but you probably want to stop the shittery beforehand and you may be able to save HoS from a permanent ban and just get them a role ban).
If they try to shoot at you, you shoot back in self defense. Altho by that point they are on-track for a permanent ban from servers.
If no admins are online, they will check when they do connect. As all ahelps go straight to discord.
This is not SS13, if you go actual self-antag as command, the best case scenario is usually a role ban from all command.
Remember that you ARE expected to doubt command as being possible antags (specially now that paradox clones exist). Trying to claim “It is impossible because they are HoS/Cap” is metagaming.
been playing this game so long, i seen so many HOS/Captain or command break space law and go away without IC consquences because they might not be above law but practically they treated as if they are and almost never face consquences or get fired
the most recent example of this is me trying to arrest warden as secoff (salamander) for wearing contraband even after multiple warning from me then entire security trying to prevent me and saying “but its warden” including the HOS and Captain (i didin t ahelped because it wasn t big deal it was just clothes and nothink happened IC agains that, i atempted to jail him for related “posession” charge but he let out by HOS)
Oh i agree with chain of action
Not really. Since you only need to look a outside\real world. That`s not how it goes sadly.
The “Person of great authority is person of authority” is just common sense, you are not doing anything alone