If you’re a syndicate agent, you actively appose NT. You are best case scenario, a corporate spy. At worst case, a hitman. Any other antag is able to be killed on sight, but not syndicates.
Are you a ninja? Kill them, even if they don’t have to kill any of you to get their objectives done.
Are you a revenant? Kill on sight, even if they just want to feed on dying or dead people.
Are you a revolutionary who can just arrest heads and evac to win? Oh that’s a killing, or at least a mindwipe so you’re crew.
Are you a syndicate? Well I guess I gotta let you go until you do something bad.
You’re correct, but in the wrong way.
In my opinion, a majority of the current midround antags shouldn’t be immediately murdered until they do something to detriment the station.
Revenant actively steals souls and makes it much harder to revive people, and youll only know it exists once it does that. Rat kings are gigantic rats.
Otherwise, people should probably stop randomly killing people who didn’t do anything.
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Its mix of being a threat and having crew rights.
Hrev is a threat as long as they are alive so they go down till someone codes something better, though execution is advised rather than mandatory.
Ninja is hostile boarder, no crew rights.
Syndie crew is, well, crew. If they still pose huge risk because of their position they can be demoted if need be.
Then there is part where only legacy IDs are on manifest, to keep track of non-crew digitally you would need to take away catatonic/ssd IDs and repurpose them to new names, but command often won’t do that. I do not think anyone is even considering such PR either.
I really don’t think so. The antags are out to kill you, so you should kill them. I don’t think being the antag should award you with a special label of “oh you have to catch me instead so I can break free and do it again!” while security don’t get that protection.
Its true, sec plays by harsher rules(antags are not required to revive you, if they are not hiding you in locker in first place) so if you feel any threat, remember you are free to use stun weapons so long as you can justify it, no need to even talk(Do not take it as advice to always go guns blazing of course 
).
Ideally though you have option of backing off or backup, as its supposed to be whole deparment of you, do not die alone if you do not have to, at least without good reason.
This is an issue with the playing to win mentality IMO.
Being a syndicate affiliate is not a crime because thats how it used to work, and it just ended up with sec putting everyone into perma who did anything.
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It’s more of an issue with security having rules put onto them that antags do not have to follow, leading to one side being able to round remove mostly freely while the other side has to keep giving you second chances, especially while security are notoriously frustrating to play.
Also, friendly syndicates are really annoying and nothing can be done about them.
At same time antags are hit with 2.9 so yes and no? Depending on enforcement by admin you could be banned for attacking sec too if they do not find your justification convincing enough.
bwoink
“Just because you need to steal CE boots does not mean you need to kill and impersonate a secoff just to get a jump on them”
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Alright, if an admin boinks you for killing a secoff to impersonate so you can get a jump on the CE, they’re not letting a good roleplay and gameplay moment happen. But yeah, antags do have to follow some loose rules, don’t murderbone and don’t perma kill people for no reason.
I just really feel like syndicates should be rewarded more for stealth, but punished more for being caught. “You smashed someone’s head in with a toolbox because they were your kill objective? Well the worst we can do is 15 minutes and let you go, letting you keep your PDA. But don’t do it again mister!” Being caught FULLY red handed as a syndicate agent with NO abilitly to deny it should be perma. If you got some wiggle room and lie to security, telling them that you killed the guy because they were being rude then you should be REWARDED with fifteen minutes instead of perma.
You’d think in a company as brutal as Nanotrasen that they wouldn’t let rival agents who want to distrupt and kill just walk with the crew.
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Its a dumb blanket rule used to make it easy to shutdown security validhunters. In reality syndicate agents should be more careful about getting caught and security should have more strict rules about what they can use to construct evidence of “being a syndicate agent”, but agent players hate “getting their special traitor round ended” and some security players are lazy and want to jump to the concluson “emag = traitor = perma”.
Being an agent should be permabriggable (as an option), but actually proving that needs to be held to a higher standard of proof. Its a poor compromise as it currently is where you can’t brig a known hostile-to-the-station entity.
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I recently played a syndie round where I’m sure half the station knew who every single traitor was. Sec saw 5 people whispering in a dark room, super surplus to the left, and all that happened was 2 of them got brigged for like 5 minutes and lost some of the loot. It was ridiculously obvious that all of us were involved but me and some others got away with it because we didn’t touch the crate.
It then culminated in me magdumping HoS after repeated mistakes and incredibly suspicious behaviour (captain saw me and some guy whispering, hinted to knowing we’re syndies but did nothing). There’s little reason to not drop codewords on radio or whisper in dark rooms since, unless sec catches you holding contra or talking about how you’ll bomb cap, they can’t do anything.
Letting enemy agents outta the brig at all makes no sense for a supposedly ruthless company, and while the rule does its job of making sure you don’t outright lose your round over nothing, there’s no tension until you actually have contra in your bag, even if you’ve been hanging around bridge entrance for 10 minutes eyeing command.
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this just sounds like admins don’t want being syndi to be a crime so that the round antags don’t get jailed too early, which is a poor excuse imo. Imagine if sec caught a werewolf or a ling, but they couldn’t jail it because it hadn’t done any crimes yet.
Permanently round removing many people who have demonstrated a persistence and a capability to either kill you or interfere with the completion of your objectives.
Except they can’t “round remove mostly freely”, the limits for traitor round removal are fairly limiting as to when you can round remove them.
“You smashed someone’s head in with a toolbox because they were your kill objective? Well the worst we can do is 15 minutes and let you go, letting you keep your PDA. But don’t do it again mister!” Being caught FULLY red handed as a syndicate agent with NO abilitly to deny it should be perma."
This isn 't getting caught as a syndicate agent. It’s getting caught as a murderer.
Your “no ability to deny it” is exactly the problem with “uplink found, perma um” which was what LRP was before we had spacelaw. It lead to the unenjoyable play to win gameplay loop that we actively want to avoid.
Additionally. A person is eligible for permanent confinement if their timed sentence would exceed 15 minutes.
you very much CAN perma someone for murdering someone with a toolbox
Murder - max time 15 minutes
Syndicate contraband - max time 10 minutes (if its a sus toolbox)
Trespass - max time 5 minutes (assuming they broke into somewhere to kill them)
I would strongly suggest utilizing stacking crimes instead of just “murder, 15 minutes”. You are VERY able to perma people, spacelaw is a tool for sec to use, they just don’t.
You can round remove as many people as you like if you have “die a glorious death” as one of your objectives, and you can round remove people when you have a good reason, which I would say is mostly freely, as that’s when you want to do it.
Well security KNOW you’re a syndicate, you’re just protected by metashield, unless you just tell security that the person is your kill objective, which even then they can only go like “oh well you’re an evil syndicate! We’ll keep an eye on you.” (and I think metashield should be used as little as possible idealy because it does feel a little bad on both sides in my experience)
If you have the crimes you added, yes. But you added those. I don’t really get your point.
I think a better ruleset would be that security are made aware again that the PDA can be used as an uplink, and being a syndicate agent isn’t a crime you can be jailed for, but your PDA can be confiscated. This provides risk for the syndicate while not being round removed, and rewards for security if they catch a syndicate they have to let go later.
“Well security KNOW you’re a syndicate, you’re just protected by metashield”
You know, your character doesn’t. Regardless of “metashield” if you are physically unable to roleplay even the most basic “he could have murdered them over a disagreement” instead of “only traitors kill people, perma he”. Maybe a roleplaying game isn’t for you.
“I think a better ruleset would be that security are made aware again that the PDA can be used as an uplink, and being a syndicate agent isn’t a crime you can be jailed for, but your PDA can be confiscated.”
Prisoners must be given their shift mandated PDA after confinement has finished, unless there is solid proof of PDA tampering. In case of tampering, the PDA is to be secured and replaced with a new unit. - Space Law - Space Station 14 Wiki
You. can. do. that.
However if you are suggesting a want to be able to confiscate PDAs purely on the assumption that a criminal is a syndicate. refer to
Innocent until proven guilty.
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