Removing thieving gloves from the game makes it a lot harder to play stealthily.
I liked combining the chameleon projector and thieving gloves, to be an office chair or something, while stealing someone’s backpack to complete a traitor objective. That is now impossible.
If thieving gloves are removed for nukies also, then this removes a major nukie infiltration strategy of stealing the captain’s backpack to get the disk.
As someone who can’t land a single melee or gunshot on anyone, combat is useless for me. Only stealth or explosives work. I think this is an unfair debuff to players like me, in favor of players who use guns. It would be more fair if you added some other stealth device for traitors, but no such item has been added.
With expected nerfs coming to the hypopen, these changes feel like my play style is being specifically targetted.
The reasoning is that this gameplay you are describing is completely un-engaging.
You stand near someone, remove an item from them and you are either caught red handed, which means your plan ends there, or people just go “oh, i guess i got robbed” later.
You are supposed to take risks that actually cause reactions as to spice up the round. Antagonists’ whole reason for existing is to make rounds more interesting.
They are very much pushing traitors to make more violent moves.
Usually thieves DO get caught. If there’s only one person there, they are caught. If anyone else has their strip-search window open, they are caught. If they steal an ID, they are caught if anyone nearby has an administrative HUD or sec HUD.
Ehhhh… the gloves did cause some serious “what the fuck” moments. Stealing your shoes off your feet? A very popular thief move. Slice it however you like, that does not make any damn sense.
As for being caught it’s about playing smart or at least being good at bullshitting. Failing that, making the round interesting.
Outside of that, separate from concepts, didn’t they make the thief have the same ability just without gloves?
Antags who exclusively use stealing gloves to take an objective item, without ever being caught or compromising risk do not drive rounds.
They may as well not even be in the match with how little they impact the roundflow, antag gets the epic greentext, CE loses their convenient shoes for the remaining 30 minutes of the shift… and thats it.
Removing thieving gloves forces antags who want to be stealthy actually have to play the game and extend effort, need to steal something and want to be silent? break into their department or bait them somewhere and use a silenced weapon, etc.
Thieving gloves aren’t fun for the victim, aren’t fun for sec, and few antags have fun actually using them, they’re a means to a greentext, which is boring for all parties.
I suggest you try be more inventive when stealthing or practice going loud, because it is so much more fun for everyone involved.
The “Thief” antag still keeps their thieving ability as that’s like their whole thing, and they have alot less freedom in how they approach stealing things as they’re pacified, but the same can’t be said for syndies.
You speak as if there is no risk in using thieving gloves. There is a ton of inherent risk. See my post above.
The only silenced weapon I could find is the cobra. It takes 6/11 shots to crit a cargo tech, 7/11 for an atmos, and 9/11 for a captain. But my success rate in hitting people with gunshots is more like 5%, so it would not work. Don’t tell me I have a skill issue unless you offer a way to practice to improve my skill. I only get an uplink about once every 6 rounds.
You can practice on your own server if you are lacking that. But no, you are not supposed to kill an armored captain easily with just a cheap gun.
Not all objectives are made equal either. Some are harder than others.
Personally. My first antag rounds where very tame, i risked little and spent most of the round just looking for a good moment. When i had to steal the nuke disk i did not even try because i lacked the skills to even know where to look for it. I kust tried to kill the captain and wing it from there.
But yeah, you cannot hold the game design hostage because you do not know how to play. And you are never going to learn without failing first.
Think of it like this:
The syndicate antag’s playstyle was not what it was intended to be with the gloves.
They ended up playing more like Theifs and stealing when they needed to cause more issues that a thief. Its not the risk but the reaction that can be taken when it happens. “Oh my cmo Hypo is gone, time for sec to not be able to do anything” and that’s all the disruption that happens. With a thief as a minor antag that’s fine, but when the main antag of the shift makes no noticeable change in the shift its no good. If not having them makes the antag not fun then you should try it a different way or turn them off.
For nukies idk, I guess they lost a Strat, but they could also just blast captain when they are alone
Nancok, every time I’ve played as an antoganist and gone loud (with guns or melee weapons) I have either run out of rounds without getting anyone down to half health, or been arrested before I could even spend all my ammunition. This is true even when using the most powerful gun a traitor can get (the python) against a captain. I have 800 hours currently. Practicing on my own server doesn’t work, because the targets there don’t move.
I think you are arguing in bad faith by saying that I’m trying to hold game design hostage. I see this as a debate between two playstyles: guns and stealth. The comments on the pull request support a guns playstyle, with very few supporters of stealth in that thread.
playing as sec can get you good practice. I agree it is unfun to have shit stolen and having no idea what or who happened. removing them completely doesn’t negate this issue completely, as thieves still exist. nukies should 100% still have access to the gloves.
Half the frustration with thief gloves was the pretty simple nature of just yoinking something with no notice, no doafter. Unless you have your inventory open and happen to be looking (rather than typing for example) you just find that your shoes are somehow gone from under your hardsuit or the hypospray that was in your hand gone. There are plenty of ways to get ahold of something. Roleplay, clever machinations, cooperate with other antags.
You are not supposed to face off against the crew. Pick fights you can easily win, you are not rambo, you are a syndicate agent trying to pull a fast one. If a fight devolves in more than one people fighting you, you are already loosing. Flee if things get dire.
Pick guns that are actually good. Python has decent DPS, but it is slow and has low ammo, which means a low margin for error which is what leading you to getting caught (there is a reason no one uses the python)
If you are planning on facing sec head on and are afraid of stuns, get an EMP implant.
Always use a disguise for your identity when attacking, if things go wrong it lets you try again under a different face.
For highly difficult objectives, wait for chaos to start and THEN pile onto it with your plan. If the shift is VERY calm, you can afford more RP oriented distractions. Like trying to lure the captain with a command radio message using a voice modulator.
Overall remember that you are supposed to be a spy, your methods should be underhanded and opportunists, you will not have the same opportunities each time. Turn the chances in your favor trough sabotage and THEN act when things are favorable.
My comment about holding the game hostage is a direct response to you saying
But my success rate in hitting people with gunshots is more like 5%, so it would not work. Don’t tell me I have a skill issue unless you offer a way to practice to improve my skill
which essentially translates to “this is the only playstyle i can manage and you are responsible for it to be enough”, completely disregarding the rest of the playerbase.
Nancok, thank you for the strategic advice, but I wish you would stop falsely accusing me of saying things I’ve never said. Please be civil.
I’m only asking to have my preferred play style given equal recognition to your preferred play style, and I think both are valid. Don’t accuse me of disregarding the playerbase when I consider the guns-and-swords playstyle valid as well.
There is absolutely zero risk unless someone randomly has your strip menu open or you’re trying to steal an ID under stupid circumstance, if you’ve got caught using thieving gloves you’ve accidentally done something easily preventable.
Steal in your left hand while facing right and vice versa and nobody will notice.
And as I kind of glanced over it in your initial post, to put it bluntly; yes your playstyle is being targeted, because it’s not fun for anyone but yourself.
Hypopen has zero counterplay, thieving gloves had zero counterplay and were impossible to track down if their user was competent, these are instances of things being found to just not be healthy for the game or generally ‘fun’.
If I’m sec and I somehow lose to an E-Sword or Viper wielding psycho I’ll feel as if I’ve been legitimately bested. While if someone were to instead left click me twice with a pen before I can possibly get my baton out and then toolbox me until I gib, I’ll feel as if I’ve been cheated.
There’s more to antag than greentexting, picking the options that specifically allow you to avoid any conflict, whether that be from giving your target hell or giving security actual work to do, is frankly just uninteresting. Being inventive and pushing what you believe you’re capable of as an antag is what creates memorable rounds for all parties and hones your skill, taking the hypospray with thieving gloves then keeping it in a storage implant all shift does not do any of that.
Also as a highly subjective aside, stealth nukies suck. you’re telling me you take the opportunity to play the mode where you get huge guns, huge budget and even huger DAGD status, and choose to do nothing for 50 minutes then pickpocket disk (and die since you’re underarmed). The less encouragement for this playstyle the better IMO.
Even without gloves, thieving being an innate thief ability, it still has zero counterplay. Even if you do have your window open and see them do it, yoink yoink, both hands, shoes stolen off your feet, backpack belt comms whatever stolen right off you, and they run. You can’t catch them and sec never gets your shit back. Oh look, they can just do their sentence and come do it again. What counter do you have against your clothes being stolen off you repeatedly? To just go cryo…
It just needs god damn something to work with to give the player some means to counter it. Even if it is something that makes your job a little less convenient, its zero fun and makes zero sense to lose your shoes or backpack for the fifth time in a round because the same thief just disappears it, and all the irreplaceable kit inside it.
Point of thief is to be a Non-lethal nuisance. Aka kleptomaniac
But if they continue to steal again and again it is repeat offense and 3rd time of them doing so is a perma sentence.
Thief cannot kill or gib you. They can only steal stuff. Annoying yes(that the point of antag). It`s also main antagonist for Detective players. You just give them name\description of people that were around when stuff got yoinked. Thief is super easy to counter by paying attention
Also you can label your stuff with that one cheap tool that exist.