What kind of danger constitutes usage of syndicate contraband for command and crew?

Rule Clarifications Questions
1

Okay, so I’m making this because no where in the rules is it clear that usage of syndicate contraband.

I’d like for more experienced and longer serving admins to respond when they can, and If possible I’d like more than just one admins opinion or say on this.

This is from the actual SS14 wiki: 4. Command or security allow the use of Syndicate items outside of extreme emergencies.

Now as most of the SS14 rules its vague as fuck, like what is an extreme emergency? Nukies? Ninja? Dragon? Two syndies who bought a surplus which have DAGD and are rampaging departments?

Like this is extremely unclear, I’ve seen a lot of indef bans or just role bans on players in command giving out syndie contra of course some were just being idiots, while others were dealing with a threat, for example:

This is a recent command ban for the user @TPgaming, now he had other offense’s but the one I’m focusing on is him giving RD a python just so he could protect himself, against a THREAT, now some people say ah its just ninja he can’t do anything too bad, right? WELL WRONG!

I had this round where I got ninja, was doing my ninja things and nukies being the asses they are, shot at me trying to kill me, so I retaliated by killing three to four of them, with minimal damage. How can you say Ninja isn’t a big threat when the mf can kill three nukies by himself?!

Another time I was spectating a ninja who needed to get the wanted thing on the computer, so he killed all of security in sec at the point of time, which was five! And they were armed! So yeah Ninja is a big deal, but it does depend on the player too, but in RP he is an elite mercenary from the spider clan, the word elite should already tell you he’s no fucking joke.

“I am an elite mercenary of the mighty Spider Clan! Surprise is my weapon. Shadows are my armor. Without them, I am nothing.”

Now for dragon, while yes Security could just get armed and stuff, but what if security is absolutely trash, can crew or command use syndie contra then? Tbh I’m just adding this part since I personally don’t really see the use to use syndie contra on dragon unless Security has lost all they’re weapons.

Now for DAGD syndies who got extremely lucky with a surplus, as an example I saw a two syndies one jug, one elite attack Security in an instant and take the whole department, it took about twenty minutes for captain, yes captain to kill them, since security had died, now lets say in the span of twenty minutes a dumb syndicate got caught with like an raid suit or idk a bulldog, can cap or crew use that to attack the two EXTREMELY armed syndicates?

A little side note, lets say there was a confirmed Bloodred or Elite outside of bridge, maybe lone op, maybe just a syndie in a suit or nukies who knows? Can security use the syndicate contra they found against the unknown assailant?

2

It is clearly written in space law as: “Syndicate contraband may only be used in emergencies, and only to prevent death or gross bodily harm.”

Disclaimer: this isn’t the final answer to this question as of yet.

3

Alright I see, but that still pretty vague.

Syndicate contraband may only be used in emergencies, and only to prevent death or gross bodily harm.

The highlighted part is what kind of makes it more vague to be honest, lets say its singuloosed and there are no eva, can crew, command and security use bloodreds, syndie eva’s and other syndicate hardsuits to protect themselfs?

And the prevent death part makes it even more confusing, does that mean security or crew can arm with syndie gear if there’s a lone op or just some random syndicate that’s murdering people to fight against him?

4

this is solely my opinion on the matter, and NOT the whole admin team as a collective, so keep that in mind.

only to prevent death or gross bodily harm, is to mean something that is an immediate threat. Like if you are attacked with by a syndicate agent who just so happens to slip on a banana peel drop an energy sword, then yeah that would be allowed.

in your singularity example, I would say yes, in the case there is limited EVAs available, one can use syndicate EVAs/hardsuits with the understanding that security would be reasonable in shooting at them and they should probably change out of it as soon as the opportunity calls for it.

In the case of PvP, syndicate items should be only be utilized in a period in which they pose a direct threat to you and you have no other method of defense. (A secoff has a stun baton, a disabler, and a pistol they should utilize before ever thinking of running to the armory and asking warden for the energy sword), or if the situation has the capacity for mass casualties (nuclear operatives, zombie outbreak, most of security or station being incapacitated)

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5

Alright but what does the admin team constitute an immediate threat.
Is ninja an immediate threat? Or lets say that sec has no tools [which can sometimes happen.] and there’s a bomb, can sec utilize the tools within a suspicious tool box? Or just in general can security take the non-contra stuff out of syndicate bags, or toolboxes and use them for they’re own personal or departmental usage?

And what about the usage of chameleon clothing as security, and can Hos permit it? I’m mainly asking this question because I did use chameleon as a security and it really didn’t give me any advantage, the only thing it did was give me a funny little undercover act, which worked but I could of really just done the same without chameleon clothing.

Side question, tell me if I’m wrong, but CC aka admins are the only one’s who can permit Syndicate gear for security and command, captain can permit Major contraband but not Syndicate, and Hos can only permit Minor yes?

6

once again, this is solely my opinion on the matter, and NOT the whole admin team as a collective, so keep that in mind.

A immediate threat to me is “Imgoingtokillyourightnowstartrunning”. If something is not within the immediate proximity of you and it’s not trying to kill you, then its not a immediate threat.
For example: If you’re in cargo, and the ninja is in research, it is not a immediate threat. To be in danger you have to actively throw yourself in danger.
but if the ninja is in cargo, but is not attacking and you have the chance to escape, you should prioritze escaping over fighting.
If the ninja is in cargo with you and is killing everyone they see, they then become a immediate threat.
(remember you should not have syndicate contraband ready to be used for such threats, as per space law)
(syndicate contraband should not be hidden in a emergency spot for no reason, as per powergaming/metagaming laws)

The tools within a sus toolbox aren’t contraband, they are no difference then the tools anyone could fabricate. It’s just the combat gloves, syndi-mask, and box itself thats contra.
Same for the syndicate bags, non-contraband can be utilized, but if they came from a traitor thats been arrested, you do have to return them once the traitor is released from the brig. (as long as the non-contraband was not utilized in the acts of crime.)

Chamo clothes are syndicate contraband, they should not be used and you should not actively put yourself in a situation where it’s needed

Yes, only CC can auth syndicate contraband, captain major contra, and HOS minor contra as per space law.

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7

Thanks, that actually cleared up a lot of the holes in the rule and that became a lot more clear, and yes I understand this is mostly your opinion, except the rules of course and I thank you for your input.