I’ve been thinking this for a while, but it is becoming more and more a problem. The Passenger role states that they are to listen to absolutely anyone. However, It is a rare passenger that listens to someone in a job role.
The example I’d site is that as CE, I tell 3 different passengers that broke into Engineering to leave, and they just continue looting the engineering vending machines. As CE, I state that we won’t give out insuls without a head’s stamp, and I get mocked by the engi team, ignored, and killed by an engi for it. When I report the break in and theft of materials to sec, they are still gearing up and doing their round start briefing, so they don’t respond.
I feel that on Lizard, the passenger role is causing too much chaos and is not being played properly. The passenger role isn’t a license to steal and go against crew and command instructions… is it?
Or is this how the passenger role should work? I’m very much don’t like that as CE, I have to worry about passengers looting and stealing critical supplies while also trying to get atmos and power up.
I guess the whole main thing about passenger as while it is a way to learn the game and find out how to do multiple things from the get go, it feels like they aren’t exactly told what exactly is okay and what isn’t okay.
Most people just grab stuff and start learning by hand and sometimes it can be disruptive (I’ve been accidentally disruptive as a Janitor when I played first few games, it’s going to happen)
Some sort of tutorial needs to be implemented that allows players to learn at their own pace, and what can and what cannot be done rule wise.
Greytide is just a bad meme. Its meant to be funny but passengers pulling a greytide cause more disruption that actual antags. If you play security you basically have a toss up between them being an antag or just an asshole passenger that thinks they can do anything they want
again thats why you appear in locations but dont touch anything.
the atmos techs should be wondering how you even got into atmos. not trying to fix the plasma flood you accidentally caused cause you ddecided to start messing with distro pipes.
I agree that those laws would be funny, but somewhat impractical. If a passenger steals the uranium from Engi, and we need the SuperPACMAN to get the station running, that is no longer “cause no harm”.
I think the other issue with Passengers is it isn’t just used by beginners. There are multiple regular passengers that are more experienced than me and are professional troublemakers.
I’m curious what everyone thinks, and if we can find a way to make the passenger role less self-antag.
one solution - although a bit of a band-aid one - is to ahelp them more. think a passenger is being unreasonably disruptive? ahelp, tell the admins who they are and what they’re doing. not sure if it fits the exact definition of self-antag? do it anyway - worst-case scenario, you get told it wasn’t a big deal, and lose nothing but the time it took to ahelp.
depending on admin availability, it might not stop them from messing things up in the current round, but these things do get looked at and addressed after-the-fact too. you could be the reason someone gets the rare passenger roleban!
i feel like passenger’s role is both to be a training role for new players and give older players a role to be creative in. I always like making random rooms in maints or just walk around without any real responsibilities.
If passengers are acting like assholes, they don’t fit the intended role of passengers and should be ahelped or put in jail
i belive this is actually rather simple to fix? you know when you get antag there is character menu at top left bar that tells you your objectives, just make it so when somone plays as newbie role when they spawn in the menu opens automatically and it will be the first think they see, and we can just put “don t cause harm or real trouble” to objectives /// alternatively, we can make it so it always opens whenever you spawn but you can disable it in settings, so you can still play newbie role without it popping up
or we can just add mentor ahelp relay whic i crave so much because i like teaching new people
I dont see passenger as anything more then being a spectator that can actually interact with the gameworld. Think ss14s biggest problem that will never be fixed is a player one. A lot of players has a chronic main character syndrome and think they are the one and only savior of every station. A lot of people arent contented with being one of the countless peoples who vanish in whatever tragedy that befalls the station.
The main characters of every round are antags and department heads. And the rare few that roleplay themselves into the position of a hero. Not every passenger and hopped up player who want to powergame to hell just to score a win
As a passenger main myself I do agree that some of us (including myself at times) can get a bit too disruptive. Its not only a Lizard problem, it happens on levi and vulture aswell. I’ll spawn in the tools room and 5 seconds later someone has stuck a lit welder in the fuel tank and I have to ahelp then crit them so sec can arrest them.
I think the main issue is the culture around tiders/passengers. While as someone who has also played heads before I understand the frustration that can come from dealing with an aggressive tider, I think also that tiders dont ever get listened to, and are subject to harsh prison sentances and overall treatment.
Of course, there will always be assholes in any department, if they dont let up then ahelp them and if they are activly harming other people then you can crit them and then grab some zipties before getting them to med.
First of all, the issue here is OBVIOUSLY the engi team.You said they not only assistend in self antag, but also insubordinated and killed you? That is not a passenger issue, that is an engi issue that would end with a bunch of game bans if you had ahelped.
Departments have access requirements for a reason. Those are the main tider deterrent.
Kinda unrelated, but what do you mean gearing up?
Since when does sec need to “gear up” for a tider? They all spawn with batons.
Last time I played engineering, I ahelped a powegaming medical doctor that rushed engineering at start of round to get tools/insuls. Another engineer happily let them in deep into engineering and gave them anything they requested. I was quickly reminded that powergaming is allowed on wizden LRP servers and that this is totally fine as doctors might need tools (?? lol).
It’s not a problem with the passenger role in my opinion, but rather lack of server rules and the will to enforce them. Being ostracized for fighting powergaming is a direct side-effect of no OOC consequences for powergaming.
I would recommend playing on MRP instead, but I myself loathe whitelists or having to write a meaningless backstory according to some abstract specifications just to be allowed to play. At least now you can apply on the forums, which is progress.
Let’s be clear here.
Getting tools like a wrench or screwdriver as doctor is fine, because they do indeed use them.
Breaking into engi/ignoring the head’s orders to NOT do so is something you can call sec for. And with repeated offenses, can maybe get a “hey, tone down the self antag” from admins.
Passengers have no duties and as such are allowed to do whatever they want short of self antag. A doctor is supposed to be healing, so them getting a multitool is obviously metagaming as it is going out of their role (if you are setting up cloning, a networking tool is almost always mapped alongside it AND you can ask for that instead of multitool worst case scenario). A passenger may need the multitool for some plan of theirs so it can’t be labelled as metagaming.
Now it may have changed since last I played passenger, but as a passenger you are subordinate to everyone else. That does not mean your job is “lol lmao anything I want :^)”, it means you’re lower than a janitor moping up clown drawings.
Using the role to gear up with best in slot items you can scrounge up and being a nuisance is what prompted this topic.
If anything, passengers should be under more scrutiny for gearing up with tools than a doctor metagaming a need of hacking open doors due to OOC knowledge of round escalation.
If it were up to me, I’d force all passengers to spawn with random brightly colored jumpsuits, remove their “cool” factor that supports this behavior. If that didn’t work sufficiently, there’s always mechanical solutions such as detrimental character traits that get removed when one gets a job change IC.