Ever since we had that vulture update that severely lowered the time requirements on virtually every heavy RP job, things have gotten so bad…
Captains who don’t know how the comms console works, AI’s that don’t follow laws… The utter shear NRP shittery I have seen the past week is disgusting, nobody in the important positions actually knows what their doing, no new warden knows space law, and virtually every command member contributes nothing to the RP anymore.
TD;DR: revert the playtime changes, they do not benifit anyone.
Yeah. Short playtimes lead to cap tiders.
Like i actually saw CE player who saw singulo loosed once due to AME explosion. And he literally threw ame and and PA consoles in space(we retrieved them) and was pissing and screaming about TEG when literally the only person who knew how TEG works was me.
Solo atmos and i was screaming at him WE NEED AME NOW or we enter power death loop(need power to make power). Which only can be fixed by manually cutting HV wires from everything that is not atmos and TEG. Because pumps need power to pump, to start whole thing.
Which would kill air distribution on station, Because beginning is the most important time in a round to fill pipes with air mix.
I literally was forced to build AME in atmos, so he dont see it. Just so we dont evac at 10 min(and no i didnt aHelp it, i do like to resolve it IC. Also it would not fix the issue for ruture rounds)
I always disliked the idea of timers as a whole (they are too arbitrary), but even i have to admit that the amount of shittery and, as much as i hate to say it, incompetence, has gotten quite worse.
Sec ignoring crimes in front of them consistently. Antags ignoring their objectives. People addressing admins by name in common comms.
The other day i saw 2 tiders who bombed chem then proceeded to spam swastikas in ASCII.
In my 1K hours, i never saw stuff get this consistently bad.
And these offenders are NOT just new players, but when you are surrounded by players that disregard the rules, it sways the rest to follow suit.
I think the maintainers have pretty nuanced feelings about this, so it would be interesting to see their opinion and reasoning on it.
In the meantime, I encourage everyone reading this thread to read this 2023 thread on the same topic. In particular, EVIL_ED wrote an extended opinion on why role timers are a blunt instrument to solve the problem of a player having the right skills to play a role.
I think it would be awesome if there was some sort of in-game qualification system where a player character demonstrates knowledge to their department head or the old “senior” role, who then vouches that the player has sufficient skills to unlock the role. However, there’s plenty of complications to consider there (qualifying players that haven’t demonstrated skills, the fact that many rounds become chaotic too quick for real “training” to occur, and probably more I’m not thinking of).
One thing to keep in mind is that you are not supposed to be skilled in a role BEFORE trying it. You are supposed to understand how to carry it out, at least conceptually, but most importantly, to follow the rules.
Time gates are not there just to wait for people to learn, they are there to dissuade shitters and to give players time to understand the game and its rules. Because reading the rules and abiding by them are very different experiences.
If HoS gets killed by a tider with a knife, that is fine, they just aren’t as good at combat yet. If a HoS breaks space law and does not even understand that they did it, now THAT is a problem.
Incompetence can lead to funny situations, breaking server rules is not an intended part of the experience.
I think for command this isn’t the case there are rules for comptantacy for head of department and your responcable for training anyone new coming into your department. I personal feel that you should only take up a department head when your confident as that role, with the acception of HoP as they don’t really do ‘service’ duties even if legally they are head of service.
Id say command should have time gates for the roles or be vouchered in by already existing command.
ofc that you should be competent.
But there is no enforced “You must be able to beat this threat in 1v1 every time to play” or “You must be always capable of setting up all power on your own before the 10 minutes mark.”
You must know HOW to do it, but failing is allowed.
From experience, vouchers suck a LOT. It encourages a lot of toxic and anti-rule behaviour (like meta-friends or singling out new players).
It also adds an unnecessary gate to roles. I really disagree with the approach to allowing MRP whitelists from vouchers. A player should not be deemed valid for vouching for another just because they passed the test.
Suppose that is a good point a shitter command could lie and purposely help there friend get into command. but I think its better than the check list you do yourself as at least then you have some barrier other than running down a check list.. reverting the time changes for command would be an alterative but I kinda like the idea of either hitting the long time mark or getting an existing command to ‘sign off’ that you meet the ‘qulifications’ for command. Im not too bothered about non-command roles having short timers
My issue is not even shitters electing shitters.
It is that non-shitters may have difficulty getting in simply because they have not made META contacts yet. Which is a very unfair requirement.
I remember when i played in CMSS13. You needed to appeal to the ““council”” to be accepted for high requirement roles. Which required them to know your character.
So if they just where not online during your hours you where simlpy out of luck.
In the same vein, players that had been in the community for years would either get defended or swiftly re-instated after breaking rules. “They have been doing a lot better now, they can come back, trust me.”
But let us ignore that. Let us think what are the POSITIVES of it: Some people get to skip the whitelist process? I do not see how this is fair or good for anyone.
Trust me, it may not be an issue NOW. But human nature is about making groups and protecting that group. It just tends to that by default.
I dont think you need ‘meta’ contacts. you just need to ask over the radio
:n Hey RD can you sign off that I contained this anom correctly.
:e CE can you sign off I can make TEG I set it up here.
:u QM can I do the shuttle today so you can sign it off when we arrive at CC.
The checks I had in mind are very black and white pass fail type things. that command can come and quickly go “yup, thats working” or Nope, you need to do this. even claiming a normal position at the start of shift and getting Command to check you did your job without help for some roles would be enough.
As long as you + a head of department exist or a captain you would be able to do it. Alteratively you can wait it out on the older 100 hours system. im not saying apply on the forum and Ahelp has to do it, im saying anyone who has unlocked the role can sign off on you can do things on a check list and once its finished you have command access
why not both. Have the time barrier but those who can prove they have the role knowellege can get in early, this would open command up sooner to those decicating themselves to unlocking it while having the old fallback timer if they are unmotivated or unable to do the checks for early access.
So the criteria for being allowed to play the rest of the game is being approved by players, or them having time in the first place? Hell, maybe the player has a grudge or something.
Role availability is an OOC issue exclusively, it should NOT be handled IC.
No.. this is specifically Command rank. You can play the base variation of all the roles (Sec off, Atmos, Cargo/salv, Sci, Chems/Medical) but if your taking a head of department I feel you should be able to be in the position to teach others entering your role, or step into assist any part of your department as required.
Heads already have a bit too many responsabilities to be a teacher role. On slow shifts it is a good use of time, but otherwise that would directly impede round progress in many cases (there is a reason you can’t ghost from command roles willy nilly)
For a dedicated teacher role, there should be a revision to the now removed senior role and the reasoning behind the removal.
